i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

[BrianW]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Theoretically, if you're doing it right, when you switch to doing it with a ball you'll get good ball flight. This, however, is where I have encountered "false positives." That is, I'd hit the leaf but still hit the ball thin. I think this may be caused by using mats instead of turf, but I'm not certain. As you say, an instructor would no doubt be able to see what's happening.

I said I would retire from this thread but I cant sit back and ignore it.

I know we are not all the same and have differing perceptions on things but I find it hard to see the difficulty in understanding the theory of hitting down at a ball. The book shows in detail how clubs need to be delofted with the hands ahead of the ball at impact with the lofted clubface hitting down into the core of the ball then swinging through into the ground just ahead of it.

The pictures where the ball is held in the palm of the hand with the clubface held against the ball is something we all can do and illustrates perfectly that if the club is leaning back loft will be added and the leading edge will come into contact and thin it, a thinned shot is always caused by the leading edge hitting into the core of the ball and if you do that then you are not hitting down, period. It makes no difference if you are using a mat.

Something else to consider is that even if you begin to make nice contact with the sweetspot, hit the ball at the right point in the swingpath and close the face through impact this will not in it's self give you a lower score. These 3 Skills are designed to make you a good striker of the ball which is ONE important aspect of good golf play, it will not make you read greens, select the right club, hit the right distance, read the weather conditions, play the ball into the best part of the fairway, conserve mental energy, get in the zone etc, etc, etc. These are other ingredients that you must come to terms with and not rely on 3 Skills to do for you.

A point I have raised previously is that there is no new way to hit the golf ball, there is nothing magical, mystic, undiscovered or golden, there is a whole lot of myth and confusion put about though that ties people in knots trying to work out how to improve. Just watch those golfers standing over the ball letting all kinds of swing thoughts paralyse them followed by very ugly slashes and swipes that result in nothing but poor ball contact.

If you can hit the sweetspot and bring the clubface into the ball on a nice inside arc you will hit the ball in the right direction no matter what happened before, if you can turn the clubface from open to closed through the impact zone you will increase the power of the shot without having to concern yourself with other complex swing thoughts. As you become better, as most people will through practice, then you can gradually increase the speed of your swing to a point where you can maintain the skills at your own personal maximum speed. Your overall swing should also start to improve as it will be working effectively to deliver the club head solidly to the ball, which is what all effective swings do.

[Rackster]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

perhaps the production of a DVD in conjunction with the book would be og greater help

An excellent suggestion Slater.

[BrianW]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Unbe-frigging-leaveable!

[ubizmo]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

I know we are not all the same and have differing perceptions on things but I find it hard to see the difficulty in understanding the theory of hitting down at a ball.

That's because there's no difficulty understanding it.

The book shows in detail how clubs need to be delofted with the hands ahead of the ball at impact with the lofted clubface hitting down into the core of the ball then swinging through into the ground just ahead of it.

Correct.

The pictures where the ball is held in the palm of the hand with the clubface held against the ball is something we all can do and illustrates perfectly that if the club is leaning back loft will be added and the leading edge will come into contact and thin it, a thinned shot is always caused by the leading edge hitting into the core of the ball and if you do that then you are not hitting down, period. It makes no difference if you are using a mat.

You missed my point. I understand that if I'm hitting a thinned shot I'm not hitting down on the ball. That's not in doubt. The point was, I am hitting the leaf off the mat, despite hitting a thin shot, when I do the drill with an actual ball--at least a third of the time. This is what I'm calling a "false positive." I conjecture that it has something to do with the mats, but it's only a conjecture. In principle, if I'm hitting the leaf away I shouldn't be hitting thin. But for whatever reason, that's what's happening.

Something else to consider is that even if you begin to make nice contact with the sweetspot, hit the ball at the right point in the swingpath and close the face through impact this will not in it's self give you a lower score. These 3 Skills are designed to make you a good striker of the ball which is ONE important aspect of good golf play, it will not make you read greens, select the right club, hit the right distance, read the weather conditions, play the ball into the best part of the fairway, conserve mental energy, get in the zone etc, etc, etc. These are other ingredients that you must come to terms with and not rely on 3 Skills to do for you.

No argument with any of that. But for me, lately especially, the biggest score-killer has been badly hit shots. On average, whatever par for the hole is, is the number of strokes it takes me to get on the green. If I manage to 2-putt, I therefore get a double bogey. Fortunately, my putting has improved (thanks to some helpful ideas from this site, I might add), so I'm not doing much 3-putting anymore. My chipping is better too, so I get a few 1-putts in the mix as well. But my full swing shots, which were not great to begin with, have definitely deteriorated since devoting myself to the three skills system. The only explanation I can think of is that I'm not at the point where I can afford not to think about what I'm doing with my body when I swing. If there's some other explanation, I'd be glad to know it.

If you can hit the sweetspot and bring the clubface into the ball on a nice inside arc you will hit the ball in the right direction no matter what happened before, if you can turn the clubface from open to closed through the impact zone you will increase the power of the shot without having to concern yourself with other complex swing thoughts.

I fully agree. The three key words are "if you can." And if you can't, then I think you need to try to find out why and attempt to do something about it.

[bill reed]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

hi
you keep talking about hitting downward on the ball but really you can't hit down on the ball, you can have the club-head swinging in a downward direction but it is also swinging in a forward direction and due to the loft on all clubs you always hit below the equator of the ball, if you really were hitting down on the ball you would hit the equator or above the ball and you would drive it into the ground. if you were driving a nail into the ball with say a 9 iron the the nail would be half way below the equator and pointing down about 45% to the ground and the loft of the club would drive the nail in upwards through the ball, not forwards like you would have a nail pointing out the back of the ball parallel with the ground.
with the driver the nail would be close to being parallel with the ground but your swing is more on the upswing then but still make contact just below the equator of the ball.
maybe your talking about swinging down but saying hitting down on the ball ???.
bill

[BrianW]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

You missed my point. I understand that if I'm hitting a thinned shot I'm not hitting down on the ball. That's not in doubt. The point was, I am hitting the leaf off the mat, despite hitting a thin shot, when I do the drill with an actual ball--at least a third of the time. This is what I'm calling a "false positive." I conjecture that it has something to do with the mats, but it's only a conjecture. In principle, if I'm hitting the leaf away I shouldn't be hitting thin. But for whatever reason, that's what's happening.

Tod,

Have you considered that it is possible to hit something in front of the ball when the shot is thinned, with a thinned shot the club can still slide forward and clip the leaf with it's sole. I have a suspicion that you are tending to hit on too shallow a path and are not always leading the clubface with your hands. I think you have used a video camera previously, try some very slow swings with some short and longer clubs and see where your hands are at impact, better still try and see where they were with a poorer shot.

[ubizmo]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

I have a suspicion that you are tending to hit on too shallow a path and are not always leading the clubface with your hands. I think you have used a video camera previously, try some very slow swings with some short and longer clubs and see where your hands are at impact, better still try and see where they were with a poorer shot.

Yes, this is a good next step. Something like this must be what's happening.

[BrianW]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

hi
you keep talking about hitting downward on the ball but really you can't hit down on the ball, you can have the club-head swinging in a downward direction but it is also swinging in a forward direction and due to the loft on all clubs you always hit below the equator of the ball, if you really were hitting down on the ball you would hit the equator or above the ball and you would drive it into the ground. if you were driving a nail into the ball with say a 9 iron the the nail would be half way below the equator and pointing down about 45% to the ground and the loft of the club would drive the nail in upwards through the ball, not forwards like you would have a nail pointing out the back of the ball parallel with the ground.
with the driver the nail would be close to being parallel with the ground but your swing is more on the upswing then but still make contact just below the equator of the ball.
maybe your talking about swinging down but saying hitting down on the ball ???.
bill

Bill,

I take it your post was directed at me. All this is related to the book and the diagrams in it, the images of a nail are with it entering above the equator and pointing down by 20 degrees, with longer clubs at 10 degrees and with the driver and 3 wood horizontal. I think you need to relate this to the book and not simply words like hitting down to see it, the idea is that the core of the ball is compressed into the sweet spot with all clubs.

[bill reed]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

hi Todd
i think Brian is right with his hands behind the club face at impact, its sounds very like that to me too, do you get a better result if you take only a half swing.
bill

[snowman]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Todd:

I will be real frank with you. You are never going to get any better until you know how to use the duck feet in the swing.

Coil from the lower body is from the knees and with your feet being spread out so goes the knees.

We could have you to squeeze the ball between the knees, but that also resticts the swing process.

There was more than one of the three that had duck feet, I am one and I speak from experience.

You can go Moe, You can go Yogi or Norwood from the back leg or find an instructor that knows how to work with a person with duck feet from a square stance.

Yes but what the hell do all those random words above actually mean. I am no dummy (I have a PhD) and I cannot fathom what the heck you are talking about.

I am sure you know what you are trying to say, but even ignoring all the jargon, some of the sentences make no sense what-so-ever.

[oldwease]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

It's quite possible to hit a thin shot even though the club is generally on a descending arc. If you catch it above the equator , particularly off a mat, you'll certainly get that type of result.

But, you know, this isn't rocket science folks. It surely ain't that hard to work out if your hands are leading the club head or not.

One other thing I'll throw in, though. It is possible to get your hands too far ahead of the clubhead - pretty hard to hit good shots with an excessive hand lead.

[BrianW]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

It's quite possible to hit a thin shot even though the club is generally on a descending arc. If you catch it above the equator , particularly off a mat, you'll certainly get that type of result.

But, you know, this isn't rocket science folks. It surely ain't that hard to work out if your hands are leading the club head or not.

One other thing I'll throw in, though. It is possible to get your hands too far ahead of the clubhead - pretty hard to hit good shots with an excessive hand lead.

Yes, that's correct, you can thin the ball with a descending blow if the club is too high, you cannot do it if you are making a descending blow with a divot just in front of the ball though.

[bill reed]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

hi oldwease
if your hand are to far ahead the the only really bad thing is face deloft's the club and hit it longer and lower, same if the club starts to lead the hand you add loft and hit high but sometimes find the equator with the leading edge if the club get to far ahead.
think its safer to have the hands ahead always than letting them fall behind.
bill

[qassim]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

I've just read through most of my copy of the book - I was also present at the Forest of Arden. Before I read the book I was hitting the ball pretty well and like to think I had a fairly decent swing. However what I didn't know was what I was actually supposed to be doing with the clubhead at impact - i think I was employing the the 3 skills to some degree without knowing it.

Having read the book (and without practicing any of the drills!) I think my ball striking has definitley improved as I now know what I'm actually trying to achieve at impact. My own conclusion is that if you already have decent fundamentals the extra knowledge that 3 skills gives you about impact can only improve your game. I remain to be convinced about absolute beginners benefitting hugely from 3 skills alone.

[oldwease]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

No, it's worse than that Bill; if you're way ahead, your hands have already bottomed out and you won't have a square clubface most likely. But, I'm talking here about taking it way too far. (Edit : sorry, Bill, I think that's probably what you said, having re-read your post.)

You certainly NEVER want the clubhead ahead of the hands going into the ball though.

I think I'm losing track of all the different strands in this particular thread......