Hop, Skip & Break

[Kumabjorn]

Last season I tried to figure out how to hit those "long" chips, say around 30 - 40 yrds that lands on the green jump forward with one or two bounces and then come to a complete halt.

Tried using my 60 deg LW, 56 deg SW and 50 deg GW but they usually always released. Are special conditions required? What does it take to hit a shot like that?

[Kumabjorn]

Re: Hop, Skip & Break

My interpretation of "coming around" - English not being my mother tounge - is that the club should swing around the body very deliberately rather than up and down the intended target line. Very much inside-to-inside? Have I comprehended correctly?

If so, that would explain a lot.

[Scragger63]

Re: Hop, Skip & Break

Historically I have also had some trouble stopping a ball from within 50m, mind you it is also fair to say I sometimes have more than my share of trouble just hitting a green from 50m, but I played my last round with a Precept U Tri Tour Balata ball (yes, pre loved from the pro shop counter) and I was amazed in the difference the soft cover ball made.

Granted it had rained the day before we played and it did shower once or twice during the round, but, right from the first hole, I did notice my approach shots were a little more crisply hit and they did sit nicely once they got where I had intended them to go. In fact, often shorter than I intended.

Perhaps it is a simple matter of psychological type things where because I was playing with theoretically better quality equipment, I wasn't thinking about technique rather more about where I wanted the ball to land.

Dunno...

Will be using the same ball (I did get 3 and only used the one) though not the same ball... (sic) when next I go out.

Watch this space I guess...

Cheers

[Kumabjorn]

Re: Hop, Skip & Break

Thanks for the input guys. Hopefully we'll get better weather here in Sweden so I can go out and test this technique. Just out of curiosity, is it possible to use the same shot from longer distances with an 8I or 7I?

[Kumabjorn]

Re: Hop, Skip & Break

Weather is decent so I've started to practice this kind of shot. I think I discovered that the wedge's bounce is a major contributing factor to the success rate of this kind of shot. The ground still being mushy and wet I began hitting the shots from our range mats and when I held my hands more or less directly above the ball the bounce would make the club slide through the ball and it would behave as I wanted. Then I tried it from grass but since we have clay underneath the club would slide through without the required resistance from the ground and the ball would release on the green, albeit not very much. The I tried moving the hands forward in order to get a more precise contact but coming in with the leading edge just made it dig into the ground and take away spin. Those of you who uses this shot would you agree that using the bounce is what makes or breakes this kind of shot.

[Kumabjorn]

Re: Hop, Skip & Break

My wedges are Vokey Raw and they are now three years old. I fear the grooves have become dull or rounded at the edges to a degree that it affects my ability to control spin. Am I overrating the need for sharp grooves, or is it time to buy new wedges?

[BrianW]

Re: Hop, Skip & Break

My wedges are Vokey Raw and they are now three years old. I fear the grooves have become dull or rounded at the edges to a degree that it affects my ability to control spin. Am I overrating the need for sharp grooves, or is it time to buy new wedges?

Grooves do absolutely nothing in creating spin. The golf ball will create just as much spin, sometimes more with a perfectly smooth clubface.

The only time groves become useful is when the clubface is wet, they channel away moisture like the grooves in a car tyre, actually the similarity to a car tyre is a good one, they produce more grip when smooth and only need grooves when the surface is wet.

Keep the wedges they will be fine.

[bill reed]

Re: Hop, Skip & Break

hi brian
i was reading a thing about groves and the diffrent effect V and U groves have on the ball and they said it does alter the spin rate and type of shot you can expect with diffrent wedges. it also add that the ball has to be hit crisply to add spin, if i remember it was comparing ping wedges with two other makes that used V groves and it added that the U groves (ping's) did give more backspin on the same sort of shot as the V grove.
i do think groves alone dont give you that pull back spin on the greens but a well hit shot does but the type of groves do help too.
love to hear what you think of what i have said.
bill

[BrianW]

Re: Hop, Skip & Break

hi brian
i was reading a thing about groves and the diffrent effect V and U groves have on the ball and they said it does alter the spin rate and type of shot you can expect with diffrent wedges. it also add that the ball has to be hit crisply to add spin, if i remember it was comparing ping wedges with two other makes that used V groves and it added that the U groves (ping's) did give more backspin on the same sort of shot as the V grove.
i do think groves alone dont give you that pull back spin on the greens but a well hit shot does but the type of groves do help too.
love to hear what you think of what i have said.
bill

Hi there Bill, I hope you are well and the back is improving.

Most of the spin on groves (Pun) is created by the manufacturers as a selling point, it cannot be backed with scientific tests though. As I was saying grooves are only effective in evacuating wetness from the face of a club. The roughness of the face will have a small effect on spin generated, this could be achieved with the very shallowest of groves, their U or V shape would make no difference

Here is some empirical data taken in real tests between clubs with groves and clubs with smooth faces: S = Smooth - G = Grooved


5 iron (Average yards)

S = 155 carry G = 154 carry - S = 31 run G = 27 run :-Total S = 186 G = 181

7 iron:
S = 138 carry G = 137 carry - S = 19 run G = 17 run :- Total S = 157 G = 154

9 iron:
S = 111 carry G = 109 carry - S = 16 run G = 15 run :- Total S = 127 G = 124.

In another test making 50 pitches of 40 yards to the green with rough and smooth wedges resulted in an average 36.7 feet with Smooth and 37.9 with Grooved.

[bill reed]

Re: Hop, Skip & Break

hi brian
thats very intresting, so groves matter in sand and in rough and when its wet most and dont make that much diffrence at other times.
so no point in regroving your clubs with a cutter.

my back is a lot better and have joined a new golf club and shot 4 over for the back 9 on friday so feel i am playing better and only used the driver twice on the back 9 and drove with the 1 iron 5 times.
the picture im using is of the 12 short hole at my new club.
nice to hear from you,
keep up the great posts.
bill

[BrianW]

Re: Hop, Skip & Break

hi brian
thats very intresting, so groves matter in sand and in rough and when its wet most and dont make that much diffrence at other times.
so no point in regroving your clubs with a cutter.

my back is a lot better and have joined a new golf club and shot 4 over for the back 9 on friday so feel i am playing better and only used the driver twice on the back 9 and drove with the 1 iron 5 times.
the picture im using is of the 12 short hole at my new club.
nice to hear from you,
keep up the great posts.
bill

That's right Bill, well unless anyone has some convincing evidence to the contrary.

Glad to hear of the improvements with the back and game. You were at Muscleburgh club before I think?

EDIT:

Well, grooves don't do anything in the sand as you are merely throwing a wedge of sand out with a ball sitting on it. It is also not clear what if any effect the roughness of the clubface has when grass is trapped between the ball and striking area. We know that it can produce a flyer due to the slippery grass juice sliding the ball off the face faster thus reducing spin, there is no current evidence that grooves reduce it though. There main effect would be to channel away large amounts of water falling on the face.

[bill reed]

Re: Hop, Skip & Break

hi brian
in the tests did it say if the ball flight was any diffrent with smooth or groved clubs or was it much the same, i was wondering if the groved clubs went higher.
yes was at musselburgh links and have played links golf for almost 20 years but now moved down to castlepark near gifford, it a newish couse and it a inland couse and the back 9 holds are superb a real test of golf very up and down fairways, the front 9 are not to bad also but its a lot flatter.
still playing the lee trevino way with my stance 45% open and swinging out to in with a push shot and it gives me that high fade and its working great for me. not as long as before but ball goes where i want it too most of time.
it sounds like your game has improved to and your short game seems to have got a lot better too.
keep up the good work
bill

[BrianW]

Re: Hop, Skip & Break

hi brian
in the tests did it say if the ball flight was any diffrent with smooth or groved clubs or was it much the same, i was wondering if the groved clubs went higher.
yes was at musselburgh links and have played links golf for almost 20 years but now moved down to castlepark near gifford, it a newish couse and it a inland couse and the back 9 holds are superb a real test of golf very up and down fairways, the front 9 are not to bad also but its a lot flatter.
still playing the lee trevino way with my stance 45% open and swinging out to in with a push shot and it gives me that high fade and its working great for me. not as long as before but ball goes where i want it too most of time.
it sounds like your game has improved to and your short game seems to have got a lot better too.
keep up the good work
bill

What it says is that perfectly smooth clubfaces can impart as much backspin as regular grooved faces but marginally less consistent than a face with slight roughness. This would imply that the ball flight would be similar or very slightly lower in a completely smooth face.

[GolfJunkieSr]

Re: Hop, Skip & Break

I agree that grooves on the club face contribute little, or nothing to how much spin is generated off the club face. That said, what is the general opinion of letting the club face "rust up" to create more back spin? GJS

[BrianW]

Re: Hop, Skip & Break

I agree that grooves on the club face contribute little, or nothing to how much spin is generated off the club face. That said, what is the general opinion of letting the club face "rust up" to create more back spin? GJS

I would suggest rusting had little effect or advantage. As long as the clubface has a surface roughness that effectively held the compressed ball so that it could momentarily slide then roll up the face it will suffice. The surface roughness need only be slight to allow this to happen.