Tiger & Butch

[greghutton]

Should Tiger call Butch Harmon to help with his golf?

[Coltster]

Re: Tiger & Butch

Should Tiger seek help with his current swing problems? Yes! Will he be calling Butch? Not in this lifetime!

[Golfbald]

Nope

I answered NO! Tiger shouldn't seek Butch out.

Tiger needs to grow in the game to the next level. Tiger needs to dump Nike and get some real equipment. Nike needs to pump the next big thing and Tiger is their poster child.

Phil dumped Titleist for Callaway because of a few unnamed members of their staff are helping Phil with a swing change.

Tiger like most of the golfing public needs to find a graphite shaft for his swing. Once he finds what he's looking for he'll be right back on track.

GolfBald

[LowPost42]

Re: Tiger & Butch

I said yes. You can't look at 99 and 00 and think that dropping Butch was a good idea.

[gord962]

Re: Tiger & Butch

Tiger definitely needs help, but I don't think Butch is his answer. I agree with Golfbald - dump Nike and use some real golf equipment. Look at where he began to slip and it measures up with when he started using inferior equipment. My Titleist irons from the 80's are better than the new Nike equipment. It's amazing what the almighty dollar can make one person do. From #1 to top 10 at best - wake up Tiger.

Does anyone know how long Tiger's contract with Nike is?

[Mizunoman]

Re: Tiger & Butch

I said yes, he needs to get some of the old magic back. Getting some advice from Harmon would have to help, at worst he would be stuck where he is. The main problem I think is Earl Wood's influence and reluctance to allow any other person appear to as though they are attributing to his success. This is, I suppose, perfectly understandable I would imagine lots of teachers come out of the woodwork and try to attach themselves to up and coming golfers in the hope that one of them makes it big and they can say it was all down to their teaching methods. That's why I like Dave Pelz, whenever I see him he never seems to be dropping the names of the pro's he helps (very rarely he invites them onto his teaching programmes), he lets the players mention him instead.

As for Nike, I think they are among the most shameless self promoters in the world. Using slave labour in the far east so they can pump more money into the bank account of a man who will never spend any of it. Don't beleive a word of Tiger using Nike clubs. Take a good long look at those Nike blades....my goodness, they look just like the Titleist blades he was using before, which in turn look just like the Mizuno blades he used as an amateur (not as if he was ever one of those either) All the tour pro's clubs are made by Golfsmith and then stamped with the sposors logo, Tigers clubs probably bear little resemblence to the ones you buy from your pro. Its just money talking as usual.

Maybe he will wake up one day and realise that it's not enough just to turn up these days and win. Ernie has finally realised that he is actually a better golfer than Tiger he just didn't have the self belief before. Vijay has never been scared of Tiger he just needed to find the right form, which he has done. Tiger hasn't been top of the tree for 2 years now, I would put him maybe 4th or 5th in the world at this time behind Singh, Els, Mickelson and probably Garcia.

He is one of the best, but he needs to learn a little bit of humility. Even Nicklaus admitted he went back to his old teacher once a year and asked him to teach him to play golf.

D.

[Ian Hancock]

Re: Tiger & Butch

It appears that a few of the main contributers agree here, I said no eventually too.

Tiger has always had the raw talent to be the world beater he is, any club pro could have shaved a few rough corners off a truly great player. Tiger was just a rough cut diamond,this is due to the endless golf he played with skinny arms and no strengh as a kid, all Butch did was teach an "adult" swing.

As for Nike I agree 100% although I do wish I had purchased a few shares several years ago.

Golfbalds point about the right shaft for his driver is food for thought, is there one strong enough.

I think he should drop his caddy too, I know Stevie is a good friend and they have gone through alot together, He should pay him a million and send him a Chrismas card every year maybe play a little golf, stay freinds.

sometimes you need a change and your butt kicking, especially Tiger when he starts throwing clubs around and beating himself up on the course. Any pro will tell you getting upset when playing golf leads to poor golf.

I just don't think Stevie can do this!!!!

Ian.

[tomallinder]

Re: Tiger & Butch

OK, I gotta ask... with all the money Nike spends on golf equipment, why is the equipment so bad? Titleist, Callaway, many others are far ahead.

I have tried Nike stuff over the last few years and found it lacks feel more than anything...

Tom

[Kenisu]

Re: Tiger & Butch

I just think Tiger is a Formula One car ( the best ), but needs new brakes. A fast car whith old brakes cannot win a course. Is Butch the one who can change Tiger's swing brakes ? I don't know.

[fatneck]

Re: Tiger & Butch

Tiger needs to keep developing his game in sync with his life.

Harmon has obviously played a pivotal role in the past but thats where he needs to stay. Would he be able to contain himself if Tiger were to reach his previous heights following a few Butchisms!!

Tiger needs to speak to many people until he can build a new working relationship, advice from peers would be fairly beneficial.

Im sure the likes of Faldo would be able to give him some great advice on the work/life balance (he's tried most routes).

Alternately,Tiger needs to try and dilute some of the hysteria that surrounds him so that he can try and regain his #1 status - David Beckham as a new caddy perhaps?

[TeachingPro]

Re: Tiger & Butch

Look at my post on the Poll whether Tiger would win a major in 2005 for my initial thoughts!

I think equipment has a lot to do with it, he really hasn't performed with Nike equipment I must say. But remember during the season, just after his knee op he went back to his J-driver? Although he did get better off the tee, he wasn't sparkling - not the Tiger who won all 4 majors in a row (I consider that a Slam). Hey, I'm not the world's number 1 but I played Nike blades and Tour driver for an equipment test and they were great!

He should go back to Butch to get the left-side transition sorted out, pay him his $500/hour and if he wants to, go on his own again.

I wonder whether the "split" was as friendly as everyone says it was? Rumours have it that Tiger phoned him up and Butch agreed that Tiger was ready to go on his on ... I wonder?

[pnearn]

Re: Tiger & Butch

Maybe Im being simplistic but I think Tiger could do a lot himself you know. His number one problem by far is his driving. From fairway to green and around the greens/putting he's still probably the best player there is and his scrambling is the greatest the games ever seen

But he cant win tournies and majors when his second shot is always off the cart path. I think he needs to do what Mickelson did (for half a season at least) and just give up 10-20 yards off the tee, I simply cannot understand why someone with his god given talent would rather risk the ball flying left or right because he's gone at it so hard (and when he swings he looks like he's trying to belt it, in comparison to say Els, Goosen, Singh etc). With his skill what does he care he's hitting 9 rather than sw into the green?

To my untrained eye the reason his driver gets stuck behind him is because his hips outrace his arms and he cant catch up. He probably isnt as flexible now either as he was in his early twenties so he has to learn to compensate a little

[LowPost42]

Re: Tiger & Butch

Is this poll even current anymore? Are there still those that think Tiger should dump Haney and go back to Butch?

[doogkie]

Re: Tiger & Butch

Tiger is 2 for 2 this year, without butch and with nike

but he sure the hell was in the trees a bunch

[LowPost42]

Re: Tiger & Butch

Tiger is 2 for 2 this year, but he sure the hell was in the trees a bunch

That's because the PGA supports 'long and wrong'. If they really wanted to change scores and effect tour players, rough would start at 300 yards, and there would be 50 yards of it.

They'd grow all the grass (save maybe the greens) to cut down roll on the fairways and make the rough deep - really punish those who leave the short stuff.

Instead, they screw around with stuff like equipment specs (only pros can take advantage of .30 more COR in a driver), lengthening courses (tougher for the people who keep the courses open - the green fee'ers), and trying to make the greens stimp at 30.