Proxy-fitting ... can you guesstimate a club fitting?

[Mox]

So ... this thread might be confusing and very weird, but in these online-shopping internet days, it could help us all (or not).

You see - I've recieved a great offer for a driver I've been looking at for a while ... the new Mizuno MX-560.

I'm already swinging the MX-500 with decent results (95-105mph swingspeed - 250-270yds carry), so I like the Mizunos and think that the new high MOI head and possibly a better fitting shaft can help me gain a bit of distance, and - more importantly - more accuracy / less dispersion, and fewer mishits of catastrophic nature.

However ... and this is the key to this post ... I have nowhere to go where I can get fitted with the available options. My local ProShop doesn't carry the Mizuno line, and the shops near to me that do, don't have fitting centers.

So that got me thinking ...


Is there any use in doing a fitting "by proxy"?
The idea being ... Go to a fitting center - try out heads with "similar technological basis", like the Wilson spine, the Cobra LD F or others, with some of the shaft options available from the Mizuno online dealer.

Could I - based on the results of a fitting done on different clubheads - conclude anything about what configuration I should pick from Mizuno?

I'm thinking ... If I consistently hit a Cobra LD F 9.5deg further than a 10.5, and the same goes for the Wilson, can I "conclude" (within reasonable doubt) that I would hit the Mizuno 9.5deg further than the 10.5?

And if I get better results from one shaft configuration in the Cobra driver than another shaft configuration, can I in the same way "conclude", that this shaft would be the better option in the Mizuno head? Will I be able to get close to the same launch properties?


I might be able to find a place that will let me hit 9.5deg and 10.5deg with the standard Exsar shaft. Would that give me any useful information.

I understand, of course, that this can in no way replace a "proper" clubfitting, but compared to buying off the rack based on "Oh, I swing 102mph'ish, so I'll take the stiff shaft and the 10.5 head", will it give me a better club?

[LowPost42]

Re: Proxy-fitting ... can you guesstimate a club fitting?

Just remember, you asked.


There's a long list of considerations at play here, but you need to pay attention to the golden triangle of maximum driver distance:

Launch Angle, Ball Speed, Spin

Different things effect these items, but these are the numbers that you augment and work with to achieve maximum distance.

By the way, if you're swinging at 105 MPH and getting 270 carry, you're hitting your driver perfectly.

But enough of that, let's discuss your method.

The issue with hitting similarily 'teched' heads is where they've decided to put the weight - in other words, what is the launch for loft? You'd need to do your homework and find out how much higher or lower the 560 hits compared to it's stated loft, then find a competitors head that performs about the same. Once you've got that head figured out, then you need to go hit some demos. Once you've found the golden demo, you need to find out what the true loft of the head is where you've been making your best contact with the ball (the loft stamp on the bottom of the clubhead might as well read 'driver' versus some number). Next, you need to get the headweight, and figure out what the shaft-tip or bottom-bore to ground measurement is. This is kind of crucial to know, as it'll dictate what kind of shaft flex we're dealing with, so that it will bend the same in your new driver.

So once we've figured out what loft, what weight, and the BBGM, then we can hunt for our new driver, and grab up the shaft that we were hitting in the demo. Don't forget to get your swingweight and total length numbers, either.

Armed with these numbers, we can begin a proper hunt. As a rule, the true loft will be stamped 1.5° lower - in other words, if the club is stamped 10.5, it's true loft (where you'll hit the ball) is more like 12. So, if you were smashing a 10.5 in the demo, hunt up yourself a 9, or even an 8.5.

Then you'll be comparing headweights - actuals, not read off some spec chart - and either adding weight or trimming shaft. Next up will be shaft insertion and blundering around for swingweight matches.





OR




Just buy the damn club and try it out. My impression is that the 560 doesn't launch much higher than the 500, so if you got the same loft you'd probably be OK. Stick an Aldila NV 65 S in it and bang away.

[GoNavy]

Re: Proxy-fitting ... can you guesstimate a club fitting?

OK don't take this the wrong way or get mad, but...with a 22 handicap, you are really not anywhere near consistent enough or have center face hits often enough to really worry too much about launch angles or shafts combos....just slap a stiff shaft into a 10.5 and be on your way. When you get to single digits then worry about fine tuning your driver. Before you ask, getting your clubs fitted will help, maybe a few handicap points..as in 2 or 3, maybe, but it won't make you a single digit. Fine tuning the driver is only going to get you 10 or so yards at best with a consistent swing, it won't help your direction much, if your hitting it in the woods, your still going to hit in the woods, just further...lol...some straighting is possible with shaft/head combos, but it is marginal.

With irons it is much different, bad lofts/lies have dramatic effects on ball flight, still won't make you a scratch golfer, but will help with consistency and direction.

[Mox]

Re: Proxy-fitting ... can you guesstimate a club fitting?

GoNavy ... I've already got a stiff shaft in a 10.5 ... dammit. That's no fun, you spoilsport! )

Handicap IS coming down btw. 20 at the moment, and the driver swing is fairly consistent - it's the short game and the flatstick that stinks. My goal isn't so much focused on that handicap number. I want to get the best result from my swing, and the reason to change now is not so much a NEED for a new driver, but the fact that I've been made a very good offer on the MX-560.
So basically, I'm just trying to make the most of that offer, and get a better result than just upgrading the clubhead from MX-500 to MX-560. I might as well - as much as possible - try to optimize the club specs.

But I hear what you're saying, and you're making valid points. Perhaps I'll just stick with the MX-500 or do as Lowpost suggested and get the 10.5 with the Aldila NV65S.

@Lowpost - thanks for your detailed reply. I'm making it my mission to learn from you. I'll take all your points into consideration if I continue this journey towards a proxy-fitted internet purchase.

[Mox]

Re: Proxy-fitting ... can you guesstimate a club fitting?

PS ... It just dawned on me how people can make a living fitting clubs.

LOL

At the moment, it feels like I'm launching a little high. How are the Aldila shafts comparable in trajectory between the NV65S, the NVS65S and the NV Proto 65S Do you know?b

[LowPost42]

Re: Proxy-fitting ... can you guesstimate a club fitting?

The NVS is the softest of the three, the Proto is the stiffest.

So, the NVS will launch the highest and the Proto the lowest.

[Mox]

Re: Proxy-fitting ... can you guesstimate a club fitting?

The NVS is the softest of the three, the Proto is the stiffest.

So, the NVS will launch the highest and the Proto the lowest.

Cool ... So the NV Proto might be a good candidate.

What are the main criteria for loft selection? I suppose the idea is to get closer to optimal launch conditions (somewhere close to 14 degrees with 2000rpm spin?), But how do one balance loft against angle of attack? Teeing the ball higher should make it possible to get same launch angle with a 9.5deg loft as with a 10.5deg - but how will that impact spin?

[LowPost42]

Re: Proxy-fitting ... can you guesstimate a club fitting?

A couple myths that Trackman has cleared up for us: Angle of Attack does NOT influence spin (enough) to be interesting. In other words, whether you hit down with the driver or hit up, your spin doesn't really change - it's more closely tied to loft and swingspeed. Before you start to argue that your spin numbers change even while hitting the same driver, keep in mind the roll on your driver face means you also have a changing loft on your face, too - so unless you're hitting it in the exact same spot, you're also effecting how much loft you're using, too.

This 14/2300 mantra is a mathematical beauty and a physical anomaly. Yes, if you can find a way to launch at 14° with 2300 RPM of spin, you'll bomb it as far as your swing speed allows. However, you'd have to play a true 8° driver - which means having a +6.3° AoA... good luck with that. And lets not forget that you'll need about 115 mph of swing speed just to generate enough spin to keep the ball airborne.

For the 90mph golfer, the higher you can launch it while keeping your spin under 4000 rpm, the further you'll hit it, pretty much without fail. So grab a 17° driver and have at 'er. Swinging at 60 mph? Learn how to hit off 3.5" tees!

Sorry for the little rant... sometimes I can't help myself. OK! Remember your golden triangle! Determine your AoA (a rough 1:1 loft to launch angle will be good enough to ball park you).

A ball teed higher to achieve the same LA with less loft will also have less spin - IIRC, it's 500 RPM per degree (or is that per half degree?) Maybe I'll fire up the Vector in a day or two and refresh my memory.

At any rate, unless your SS is 115 or greater, you simply want to launch the ball as high as you can without over-spinning it.