Does swingweight affect ball flight?

[koonl]

Hi all,

Just a quick question which I can't find an answer on the Internet:

I understand swingweight and how the club feels in terms of balance, but does sw affect the overall shot shape of the ball? I know that you can make the head feel heavier by lightening the butt end for example, but can't find any references to overall ball flight, or whether swingweighting is just feel?

Thanks

[LowPost42]

Re: Does swingweight affect ball flight?

Indirectly it effects ball flight as it effects club feel and thus how you swing the club. A too light and you've got no feel, leading to inconsistent contact (and a loss of distance). Heavier and you can get tired later in the round, it's tougher to manipulate (ie use fast hands to correct a swing flaw).

[bill reed]

Re: Does swingweight affect ball flight?

Hi
lowpost will be able to explain it better than me but how you distributer the weight around the club-face can change the flight.
with Ping they have a heavy sole and tend to have a high flight due to the heaver sole but by adding weight to the "tuning port" on the back you can get a lower flight.
in the older kIII pings the had a bar along the top of the club that shifted the weight higher on the club face and you had a club that hit the ball about 10 yards lower then the same club without the bar.
different swing weights can change your swing speed also but swing weight is the head and shaft and grip measured as a set point on the club shaft.
most mens irons are d1 or d2 but if you take a $ bill and tape it to your club head and you have changed the head by one point. now swing the club. could you feel a difference! no and nor could 99% of golfers.

with graphite shafts you find there lighter and so the swingweight is also lighter but often far to light so makers cheat by having the graphite shafts and they make them an inch longer . this makes then heaver and helps set up a heavier swing weight. if you have a graphite set of clubs check then against a steel set and you will see the longer shafts in most.
it would be easer to change the shaft to change the flight of the ball than keep the same shaft and change the swing weight i think.
cheers
bill

[LowPost42]

Re: Does swingweight affect ball flight?

I'd like to add that swingweight is a build byproduct - not a fitting parameter. Yes, it influences things, but the MOI of the club is more influential than the swingweight. As clubmakers are fond of saying - I can build you a D2 driver that you couldn't hit to save your life.

[bill reed]

Re: Does swingweight affect ball flight?

hi lowpost
i know the the head weight of the Ping Rapture driver is 192 grams and all lofts from 9 to 13.5 come in only d3 swing weight. the ladies Ping Rhapsody comes in only c7 swing weight.
the do not list the swing weight of any of there other driver heads or there swing weight.
cheers
bill

[LowPost42]

Re: Does swingweight affect ball flight?

Allow me to rephrase:

Every time you build a club (straight assembly) it comes with an inherent swing weight.

Scary that the Rapture is 192 (most drivers are 198 or 200) with a 60g graphite shaft and 50g grip designed to be D0. To have a head at 192 (C7 otherwise), you'd have to put another inch on - so whatever your current driver is, Ping has added an inch to it. What? Wrong! The modern off the rack driver is, at a minimum 45.5" today, with a 50g graphite shaft so that it still swingweights around D2.

The issue is that folks are 'convinced' that they 'need' a D2 or D4 swingweight. And perhaps they do... in their driver. But a GW at D2 will be awful unweildly with virtually no head feel. My own GW swingweights at about D7 or 8, but in full swing feels just like my 4i (D4ish). That's what MOI matching is all about (and does quite successfully).

I'm surprised that PING even offered 192g's for the Rapture - most companies will not post headweights.

[bill reed]

Re: Does swingweight affect ball flight?

hi lowpost
its only the rapture that they tell you the weight of the head all other drivers the don't tell you the weight. maybe that why its only available in a d3 swing weight.
i think it may be that there Rapture was there first carbon constructed multi-metal driver and it was designed by there "Cray computer" so maybe the shaft used is heaver than the standard.
here is a picture of the Rapture iron and i think you will have to agree it the most complected design and construction of any iron so far made.
it must take so much longer to make and put together, maybe thats why the G10 and I10 are back to more of the G5 design. the face of the Rapture is titanium with a s/steel surround and tungsten toe weight.
cheers
bill

[LowPost42]

Re: Does swingweight affect ball flight?

The Rapture iron looks like the Wishon 702W and 770CFE had a baby - the multimetal design of the 770's with the toe port of the 702W.

It's certainly more driver-like as you have to weld the face to the body, now.

[bill reed]

Re: Does swingweight affect ball flight?

hi lowpost
have you ever tried the Wishon 702w or the 770cfe and are the Tom Wishon penned designed and did the have a different feel to them.
i have tried the Rapture irons and the felt different to the G5 irons and i did like them but £100 more than the G5 or the G10s.
cheers
bill

[koonl]

Re: Does swingweight affect ball flight?

I bought a load of stuff from Golfsmiths, including these stick on weights, to see what feels right for me, and then just swingweight the set accordingly. I've been playing Rifle 5.0 for two and a half years after switching from DG R300, but may go back as I can feel the head better on the DGs.

[LowPost42]

Re: Does swingweight affect ball flight?

Bill, I'm playing the 770CFE now - max COR irons, I lose 1% on a 1" toe miss on the 7 iron (robot testing).

I haven't played the 702W's, and probably won't (I need all the forgiveness I can get!)

The 770's are different for sure - feel different and sound different.


koonl, I like the stick on weights. I still use weights to get the best 'feeling' club, but then MOI match to it (versus SW match, which still produces different feeling clubs.)

The main point is that SW is measured from a point 14" from the grip end - in other words, the fulcrum is below your hands - almost a third of the way down the club in a 3 iron.

MOI matching has the fulcrum at the end of the grip and (correctly) recognizes that length plays a huge part in player control and head feel (SW matching doesn't emphasize it, it puts more stock in the head weight).

[bill reed]

Re: Does swingweight affect ball flight?

hi lowpost
do you go along with the idea of having a stiffer shaft say an x in the wedges and high lofted iron and maybe a regular shaft in the long irons. or x in the long irons and xx in the wedges.
cheers
bill

[LowPost42]

Re: Does swingweight affect ball flight?

If you mean having a lower CPM reading in the long irons and a higher CPM reading in the short irons, yes, I build virtually all my clubs this way - I've never seen a shaft naturally flatline it's slope. A flatline slope actually translates into a softer profile as you progress to wedges - not bad if a player needs help getting the ball up, or for some reason wants a higher trajectory into greens.

I actually advocate the stiffest shafts possible for beginners - they generally hae no sense of feel anyway as they're bound in mechanics, and it doesn't generally matter how they swing, they'll never overpower the shaft (and introduce all the joys of dynamic bending). Once they've got their swings grooved somewhat, then we can back off the flex to find something that feels better.

[golfinguy28]

Re: Does swingweight affect ball flight?

post removed

[koonl]

Re: Does swingweight affect ball flight?

Bill, I'm playing the 770CFE now - max COR irons, I lose 1% on a 1" toe miss on the 7 iron (robot testing).

I haven't played the 702W's, and probably won't (I need all the forgiveness I can get!)

The 770's are different for sure - feel different and sound different.


koonl, I like the stick on weights. I still use weights to get the best 'feeling' club, but then MOI match to it (versus SW match, which still produces different feeling clubs.)

The main point is that SW is measured from a point 14" from the grip end - in other words, the fulcrum is below your hands - almost a third of the way down the club in a 3 iron.

MOI matching has the fulcrum at the end of the grip and (correctly) recognizes that length plays a huge part in player control and head feel (SW matching doesn't emphasize it, it puts more stock in the head weight).

I thought MOI matched clubs use the same 14" fulcrum beams as in swingweighting, except that the sw gets progressively higher towards the wedges?