Light shafts better than heavy shafts ?

[Najoh]

Hello,


First sorry for my english in this message...

I have a set of mizuno MP67 with stiff steel shafts, they are very heavy and very difficult to play. 4 pros tried to play them and told me this clubs were very difficult for them too.

I tried some taylor made forged irons with nippon ns pro 850 shafts and i was 30 yards longer with the iron 5 and was really more easy. I played 3 balls with my 5 iron and the other 5 iron and the shots were very different.

Should i change just my shafts by ligther shafts ? Or change everything by a new set of clubs ? He proposed me for 500$ a set of taylor made with ns pro 850 shafts and iomic grips.

[rotator]

Re: Light shafts better than heavy shafts ?

Hello,


First sorry for my english in this message...

I have a set of mizuno MP67 with stiff steel shafts, they are very heavy and very difficult to play. 4 pros tried to play them and told me this clubs were very difficult for them too.

I tried some taylor made forged irons with nippon ns pro 850 shafts and i was 30 yards longer with the iron 5 and was really more easy. I played 3 balls with my 5 iron and the other 5 iron and the shots were very different.

Should i change just my shafts by ligther shafts ? Or change everything by a new set of clubs ? He proposed me for 500$ a set of taylor made with ns pro 850 shafts and iomic grips.

Hi Najoh,

Re your situation, I suspect the overriding aspect is the flex.

You can get lightweight shafts or heavier shafts. Some strong good golfers prefer a heavy shaft, which gives them a better feel, whereas casual golfers may like the lighter shafts. A stiff flex shaft is not necessarily heavier than a regular shaft. A shaft could be 100 gms in weight, but could be regular in flex. Likewise, a shaft could be 90 gms, but could be stiff in flex. When you say the clubs are too heavy, it may be that it is the stiffness which is giving you that feeling.

It would be interesting for you to check out the weights of the two shafts (for the Mizuno and for the Taylor Made), and you may in fact find there is not much difference in the weights. You should be able to find the specifications for the shafts on the internet.

Regarding the flex, have you had your swing speed actually tested, to see if you should be using stiff or regular flex? You should. The fact you are hitting 30 yards farther with the regular, and it feels easier, is an indication.

If you like the Mizunos, but you find out you should be using regular, you could choose the exact shaft you need for your swing (with the help of a good club fitter), and have the shafts changed. That should not cost more than buying a new set of clubs.

You could test a Mizuno club with a regular flex shaft to see if that works.

Ted

[rotator]

Re: Light shafts better than heavy shafts ?

Hi Najoh,

I see at this website the MP67 have shaft choices including True Temper Dynamic S300 and Project X Rifle. You can check the weight of the shaft you have by going to the websites.

You can do the same for the Nippon shaft.

Ted

[Najoh]

Re: Light shafts better than heavy shafts ?

DYNAMIC GOLD S300 STIFF FLEX STEEL SHAFTS [NO SHAFT LABELS]

A new set of shafts will be very expensive too, 225$ for the nippon ns pro 850.

I don't know my swing speed and i don't know where to check it, my club maker don't has any machine.

My woods shafts are heavy too, i tested a light regular wood 5 and was 20 yards more than my wood 3.

A picture of my woods shafts : http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imag...cture39748.jpg

[BrianW]

Re: Light shafts better than heavy shafts ?

Hi,

I have a set of Mizuno clubs and selected the Nippon Pro 850 steel shafts with regular flex for them. They are indeed light and assist to increase my swing speed a little, I am pleased with the choice.

[Najoh]

Re: Light shafts better than heavy shafts ?

Tomorrow i will go see my club maker and maybe buy the ns pro 850 regular, the ns pro 750 are too expensive... double price for only 7 or 8 grams.

Thanks all !

For the woods the shafts are expensive too, better to sell my woods and buy "new" second hand ones, no ?

[rotator]

Re: Light shafts better than heavy shafts ?

You really should get your swing speed tied down, otherwise your decisions will not be based on anything solid. If your clubmaker can't tell you what you need, he is not a clubfitter. You should find a store or registered clubfitter/maker who either has the equipment, or is capable to be able to help you.

Check this website for (North American) prices for buying the shafts.
I would say TT Dynamic Gold shafts for iron clubs should cost about $50 each installed. So you may be right about $225 for the set. You can get them in regular flex, if that's what is suited for your swing, as well as stiff.

How much would the ns pro 850 cost to install? How much for the ns pro 750?

Ted

[Najoh]

Re: Light shafts better than heavy shafts ?

Got the ns pro 850 stiff for 242$ include everything.

He said the best for me is stiff.

They has a machine for check the swing speed in another shop, got between 100 and 110 MHP with iron 6.

He checked my old shafts, were XSTIFF 125 to 130 grams !

[Najoh]

Re: Light shafts better than heavy shafts ?

No changes made in my woods... but they still pretty heavy for me.

Driver - 318,2G - D2 1/2
Bois 3 - 343,7G - D3
Hybrid - 366,5G - D2 3/4

This is the new weights of my irons, light or not ?

3 - 375G - C7
4 - 380G - C7
5 - 387G - C7
6 - 393G - C7
7 - 398G - C7
8 - 408G - C8
9 - 413G - C8 1/2
P - 422G - C8

Putter - 529,8G - 0

[rotator]

Re: Light shafts better than heavy shafts ?

Hi Najoh,

Clubheads of various manufacturers are more or less the same in weights. That is, a Taylor Made 7-iron would weigh about the same as a Callaway 7-iron. There are slight differences depending on the materials, designs, etc, but the difference is only in a few grams, plus or minus. So, driver heads, whether they are the old small heads in stainless steel or the newer 460 CC ones in titanium or carbon composite weigh approximately 200 gms, the newer ones slightly less. Here's a table, which shows the standard weights of the heads, and the standard lengths of clubs.

The overall weight of the whole club would therefore largely vary, depending on the weight of the shaft material (i.e. whether graphite, standard steel, lightweight steel, titanium etc) and respective length (i.e. under and over from standard). There is also the weight of the grip, and there are variances in the weights of these (generally, the weights are 40 to 55 gms, although you can find lighter in the newer polymer grips).

The Nippon ns pro 850 shaft weighs about 80 gms (untrimmed), which is a very lightweight steel shaft. The regular steel shafts weigh up to 123 gms. Graphite shafts could weigh from 55 gms to 100 gms. So, you are not going to get iron clubs in steel shaft much lighter than with these shafts.

If you take the 5 iron head weight from the above table (257 gm), add 75 or so for the shaft (trimmed), and add 45 for the grip, you end up with 377 gms, which compares with 375 gms for your 5 iron.

Regarding your driver weight of 318.2 gms, if the standard weight of the head is appox 200 gms, and the grip weighs about 50 gms, that leaves about
68 gms for the weight of the shaft you have. That would be a lightweight shaft, and so the driver weight can't be made much lighter, and therefore it's not likely the shaft that is making the club "heavy" for you.

I think it's the swingweight, which is throwing you off. Not to get into details of what swingweight is, you can do a research of this yourself. However, here is an article which may be of interest to you.

http://www.calgolftech.com/thesaurus...ht_ranges.html

I believe most off the shelf drivers have a swing weight of D1, meant for average male golfers, although swingweights varies between manufacturers. Also, some golfers like more or less swingweight. Moe Norman had an incredible E6 with his clubs, and very thick grips. I used to play with a single digit handicap player, who used his wife's set of clubs (likely a C something swingweight). He was a bit short, and not particularly strong, but had a smooth swing.

The swingweights of your driver, 3 and 5 wood clubs are in the D2 to 3 range, whereas your irons which feel comfortable (lighter) to you are in the C7 range. But, in reality the driver is the overall lightest club in your bag. It feels "heavier", because although the head is the lightest (at appox. 200 gms), it is the farthest (45 inches or so) away from your hands. If you held the driver about the middle of the shaft length, and balance the club lightly in your fingers, you will see how light it is. Do the same with the sand wedge and you will see it is definitely heavier, which makes sense as you will see in the table above the head alone weighs 291 gms.

Regarding the driver, if you chopped 1" off the length, the swingweight will be reduced, and it will "feel" substantially lighter. If you chopped 5" off, the swingweight will be radically reduced, to the point you would not have a feel for the clubhead.

I hope this helps.

Ted

[Najoh]

Re: Light shafts better than heavy shafts ?

Thank you so much !

This post should be viewed by anyone looking for answers concerning the weight and the swing weight !

I tried the taylor made burner driver, it's pretty light ! My driver looks really more heavy, but i think the difference in grams is not really important.

My fitting shop wants me to buy a new shaft for my driver, i have a Aldila proto by you S65. Feel heavy. Why they don't just change the SW ? Can i have the same feeling with my driver than with the taylor made burner ? Light feeling.

The new shafts they want me to buy costs each one 197$... and i don't know if they will "feel" light like the taylor made burner driver.

My driver is titleist D2 907 9.5° Aldila proto by you S65 and iomic grip small size.

[Najoh]

Re: Light shafts better than heavy shafts ?

Taylor made burner » SuperFast Technology reduces total club weight to 299 grams from average of 320 and promotes faster swing speed for added drive-crushing distance.

Just 20 grams less but the feeling is really different for me.

[rotator]

Re: Light shafts better than heavy shafts ?

Hi Najoh,

Yes, the Burner is very light overall.
Apparently, the shaft is a very light 50 gms, and there may be a few gms knocked off from the head weight with new technology (but, I would think not likely in excess of 5 gms). Also a super lightweight grip. All combined to balance out the swingweight to D-0?????

How to make a driver have a reduced swingweight?

Well, you could add weight at the butt end. Note that you need 5 gms of weight at the grip end to make a decrease of one swingweight.. Also note that it only takes 2 gms of weight at the head end to make an increase of one swingweight. You could do this by installing a heavier grip (i.e. instead of a super lightweight grip, install a regular weight grip or a jumbo sized grip). You could wrap weights (such as lead) on the butt end of the shaft before installing the grips. Not as effective, because the weight would not be as close to the butt end, is to stick or wrap lead tape on the shaft just below the grips. You could cement a plug of lead inside the butt end of the shaft.

The type and inherent properties of the shaft also affect swingweight. There is a 1 swingweight shift for every 9 gm difference in shaft weight. So, there is a large swingweight increase of a 50 gm graphite shaft versus a 123 gm standard steel shaft. Each brand of shaft also has different balance and structure properties, so there may be slight swingweight implications for this.

As I said in my previous post, you can reduce the swingweight by shortening the length of the shaft. For every 1" shortening of length, there is a 6 swingweight reduction. But, as in the example of shortening a club by 5 inches, you will have screwed up the feel and dynamics. As graphite shafts are usually lighter than the average steel shaft, when graphite shafted clubs are assembled, in order to maintain the conventional total weights of the clubs, they are assembled up to 1" longer than the same clubs in steel shafts.

Obviously, you can increase swingweight by adding weight (such as lead tape or shaft tip plugs) to the clubhead end, increasing the length of shaft, going for lighter shaft, installing lightweight grips, etc.

BTW, to give you an idea of what a gram of weight represents, a dime weighs about 2 gms. Also, you will not be able to notice the difference of a couple or so swingweights, but will notice it when it gets to be a few. Actually, you could feel this by temporarily taping or wrapping weight, such as lead fishing sinkers, solder wire..to the grip end. The heavier the weight, the lower the swingweight.

Have fun,


Ted