All you ever wanted to know about shafts

[golfshooter]

There is a huge amount of info on this site. I know I have pretty much swamped the club making site,but this is really worth it, and I would love to discuss it. http://www.clubmakers.co.kr/board/bb.../file/24_0.pdf

golfshooter

[golfshooter]

Re: All you ever wanted to know about shafts

I have submitted several posts recently to GTO and others.From the fact that I have not received any replies or discussions, and my wife isn't talking to me, I formed the opinion that I must be dead. It is either that or my questions have bored others to death. Maybe it's true , 75% of my State is under water. I'll give it another shot. Dynamic gold shafts have the option of being stiff or regular just by the trimming. The article may cover this eventually but can any one quickly tell me what the difference between a S200 and a S400 shaft blank can be?

golfshooter

[Slavera]

Re: All you ever wanted to know about shafts

I have submitted several posts recently to GTO and others.From the fact that I have not received any replies or discussions, and my wife isn't talking to me, I formed the opinion that I must be dead. It is either that or my questions have bored others to death. Maybe it's true , 75% of my State is under water. I'll give it another shot. Dynamic gold shafts have the option of being stiff or regular just by the trimming. The article may cover this eventually but can any one quickly tell me what the difference between a S200 and a S400 shaft blank can be?

golfshooter

Have you not read the article? - I suspect you have not!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wall Thickness

A non-published shaft specification, wall thickness, also has a major effect on stiffness. Evidence of this fact was seen in the early versions
of lightweight steel shafts. Reducing the wall thickness of existing standard weight steel designs created the first versions of lightweight
steel shafts seen in the early 1970’s. By reducing the wall thickness, shaft makers were able to reduce the weight of a shaft. At the
same time the shaft’s flexibility increased in relation to the decrease in the wall thickness. Shaft manufacturers soon learned that if wall
thickness was reduced in certain non-stress areas of the shaft, the overall diameter of the shaft (primarily the butt section), had to be
increased to offset the flexibility change.
A shaft’s weight will affect the flexibility as well. Within the same shaft design, the heavier the shaft, the stiffer it will be. Therefore,
if you inspect a shaft manufacturer’s specification tables, this will be evident. An example can be seen in the Dynamic Gold design from
True Temper, in which the higher numbered sub-flexes of each major flex are the heaviest. The lower numbered versions of each major
flex are lighter, and in turn more flexible. (An uncut Dynamic Gold R200 wood shaft has a weight of 122 grams, the R300 version
weighs 125 grams and the R400 is the heaviest-and stiffest-at 128 grams.) For a particular shaft to be lighter, it has to be made with
thinner walls than the heavier versions of the same shaft. Hence, if the walls were thinner, it would stand to reason that the shaft could

not be as stiff as the same shaft design made with thicker walls.

[LowPost42]

Re: All you ever wanted to know about shafts

It's tough to reply when there's no topic to discuss. It looks like an excerpt from Modern Clubmaking in the 21st Century by Jeff Jackson; but some of the information is dated.

We now "know better" and the only way you can trim an "R" to an "S" is if the "S" is truly the "R" with more tipping.

As for R200 vs R400 - the 200 is lighter than the 300 and the 400 is heavier. TT DG's are a weight sorted series.

Shaft profiles and profiling far surpass simple butt measurements.

[golfshooter]

Re: All you ever wanted to know about shafts

Yep, I do remember reading that now. I was only having a bit of a joke about fallin off me perch. Thanks, I sometimes don't remember so good. The shafts I have are printed S400, the labels to be put on have S200 and S400 on them. I have seen tables for S/R trimming, True Temper has tables saying one trim for all dynamic lites. The only info I have found relating to stiffness is as you have both said and in the article going from 200-400 and staying with the stiff rating. If the shafts are marked S400 how can that be ever be an S200 ? So you see my confusion. Oh and the shafts are 41 inch
Hi guys ,a bit of editing here I am also finding myself confused with the trimming instructions on page31 'shaft Installation irons' through to the end of it on page 32. I keep reading it but it is not going in. Is that as simple as it gets or can someone explain it another way, I really want to get this right.
Regards golfshooter.

PS I have discovered that my email address had been screwed somewhere so a couple of posts vanished before I found out.I have also had trouble editing this.

[golfshooter]

Re: All you ever wanted to know about shafts

Boy! there are some gremlins in this new format, this is my third go at posting this. I think I understand where I am having trouble with trimming.I know that my previous cry for help did not clarify where I was mucked up. At least I can narrow that down now. He makes mention of uniform shaft mounting on page 26 but doesn't really clarify things until quite a bit later. For a beginner ,I think I need more info. Anyone know of more articles I can read to expand my knowledge base at the trim and fit stage?

golfshooter

[LowPost42]

Re: All you ever wanted to know about shafts

You really need a frequency machine (or frequency analyzer) to be able to dial in your tipping.

Otherwise you have no choice but to follow the manufacturers' recommended tipping (generally 1/2" more per iron; ie 4i is 1", 5i is 1.5", 6i is 2", etc). If you're doing that you may want to also ensure your clubheads are all 7g apart (5i @ 254, 6i @ 261, 7i @ 268 etc) to help make the shafts play the same iron to iron.

[golfshooter]

Re: All you ever wanted to know about shafts

I was afraid of that. I was thinking that if I use the flex board to separate the relative stiffness of each club, I would be able to organise the set , bearing in mind I haven't thought this through yet. For example, we already know the shorter the shaft the stiffer it becomes, why not put the stiffer flex shaft into the 9 iron and so forth? Or perhaps it would be better placing the stiffer in the 3 iron and so on, to take advantage of the extra flex and may be off setting some of that stiffness.
golfshooter.

[LowPost42]

Re: All you ever wanted to know about shafts

As the beam length shortens the shaft stiffens, yes - but the heads get heavier too, to offset the stiffness. The problem with the deflection board is that it shows how a shaft bends relative to another shaft given the same tip weight. The issue is that all headweights are not the same. If you could find a way to test your shafts with the actual heads attached and get them all to deflect the same through tipping, then you might have something.

[golfshooter]

Re: All you ever wanted to know about shafts

Hi LP this is a third attempt at posting this.It keeps coming up telling me I have no clearance to post. Any way I checked the weight between heads and as you had said earlier they are each within 6 and 9 gm different. Having that as a known may make my task a little easier. Just a note I can't find any thing much on "uniform shaft mounting" as is written in the first article by Jeff Jackson. Is it proved wrong or just dated?

[LowPost42]

Re: All you ever wanted to know about shafts

Can you please paraphrase "uniform shaft mounting" for me?

[BrianW]

Re: All you ever wanted to know about shafts

Hi LP this is a third attempt at posting this.It keeps coming up telling me I have no clearance to post. Any way I checked the weight between heads and as you had said earlier they are each within 6 and 9 gm different. Having that as a known may make my task a little easier. Just a note I can't find any thing much on "uniform shaft mounting" as is written in the first article by Jeff Jackson. Is it proved wrong or just dated?

Make sure the date and time settings on your computer are correct, if they are wrong the system suggests you do not have permissions.

[golfshooter]

Re: All you ever wanted to know about shafts

This is the best I could do to get you all the info. I figure you will recognise it pretty quickly.

The majority of iron shafts are set up for standard trimming and installation
into iron heads with a bottom of bore to ground line measurement (BBGM) of 1”.
The first thing to find is the tip trimming instructions for the shaft. The next step is to calculate
the BBGM . First measure the raw length of the shaft, which in this case is 41”. Insert the
shaft to the bottom of the bore and place the club in the normal playing position with the center
of the sole resting on the ground. Take a 48” clubmaking ruler and place the rule on the
ground, behind the heel. Observe the measurement on the ruler. If the measurement
is 42”, subtract the raw length of the shaft (41”) to obtain the BBGM. In this situation
the BBGM is 1”, which is standard and no adjustments to the tip trimming need to be made.
Using the previous example, if the measurement on the ruler had been 42.25”, this would indicate that the club head had a BBGM of 1.25”. If this were the case, then an additional 0.25” will be added to the tip trimming amount. This way, the first step on the shaft would be in the same position as if the shaft had been put into another iron head with a standard 1” BBGM.
I am missing something somewhere, it's probably obvious, perhaps you could put it another way


Regards golfshooter

[DaveGord]

Re: All you ever wanted to know about shafts

Thanks for the info GS. Got some bedtime reading now!!

[LowPost42]

Re: All you ever wanted to know about shafts

This is the best I could do to get you all the info. I figure you will recognise it pretty quickly.

The majority of iron shafts are set up for standard trimming and installation
into iron heads with a bottom of bore to ground line measurement (BBGM) of 1”.
The first thing to find is the tip trimming instructions for the shaft. The next step is to calculate
the BBGM . First measure the raw length of the shaft, which in this case is 41”. Insert the
shaft to the bottom of the bore and place the club in the normal playing position with the center
of the sole resting on the ground. Take a 48” clubmaking ruler and place the rule on the
ground, behind the heel. Observe the measurement on the ruler. If the measurement
is 42”, subtract the raw length of the shaft (41”) to obtain the BBGM. In this situation
the BBGM is 1”, which is standard and no adjustments to the tip trimming need to be made.
Using the previous example, if the measurement on the ruler had been 42.25”, this would indicate that the club head had a BBGM of 1.25”. If this were the case, then an additional 0.25” will be added to the tip trimming amount. This way, the first step on the shaft would be in the same position as if the shaft had been put into another iron head with a standard 1” BBGM.
I am missing something somewhere, it's probably obvious, perhaps you could put it another way


Regards golfshooter

I get it now.

What they're discussing is a method to try to dial in flex across a set without a freq. machine. In drivers, the BBGM is an important thing to consider, as shafts will feel and play stiffer the closer to the ground the shaft tip is (ie the deeper into a head you can insert a shaft, the stiffer it'll be as there's less above the hosel to flex).

What they're advocating is a method to determine the BBGM of any given iron head (and it's the most cost-effective one). It breaks down like this:

Measure the shaft - we now have shaft length (SL)
Put the shaft in the head to make a "gripless club". Measure the length of this "gripless club". We now have Gripless Club Length (GCL).

BBGM = GCL - SL

Whatever the difference is between the two numbers is your BBGM - and the recommendation is, that for however much this varies between heads, you augment the tipping as such.

For example: BBGM for my 4i is 1". BBGM for my 5i is 1.25". Remember - a bigger BBGM is a shorter insertion depth. So we'd ADD .25" of trim to the recommended 5i tipping so that the flex relative to the 4i is the same.

Of course, if your headweights aren't 7g between heads, that's a different wrench into the machine altogether.