Component replacements for irons

[westcoast941]

Re: Component replacements for irons

Whatever you decide, get the best engine(shaft) for you and your swing. Read up on the designs of the various shafts and make your own choice to what you want your ball to do. Slower swing? Get a mid to low kick point shaft. we guys in our 50s aren't going to get any faster.

Have your guy at the very least spine the shafts. If he doesn't have a spine tool, I have found steel shafts will stop their roll neutral side up when rolled on a known flat surface. Roll it, where it stops using a marker, mark a 1 inch line 4-5 inches from the tip lengthwise. Roll it again, same spot? Good, that will give you your general neutral area. For best distance this neutral part of the shaft you want facing your target. The floor roll is not perfect but it's better than just sticking the shaft in such is what you'll get buying off the shelf unless stated otherwise.

In my endless hours of golf research

IMHO opinion.
1. Precision (Rifle) http://www.royalprecision.com/ has set the pace True Temper has woke up and playing catch up. FCM, Frequency Controled Matching. Means your 4.5 regular 5.0 regular+ flex is that. No more one company's R flex is another's stiff.
2. Nippon shafts? The latest must have in steel shafts. Lightest of all steel shafts close to graphite in weight. Steel has been known for accuracy although new graphite technology is closing this gap. Nippon does not brag about the magic their shaft creates hidden inside like Precision does. Tells me it's not there? I don't know I'm not a designer

Ah yes the clone and OEM factor

I personally would not like the 'I'm cheap' factor having a set of clones in my bag would broadcast. Do I care what others think of me? Not always a whole lot, but clubs are a personal thing. The ole saying "us guys date our drivers and putter but are married to our irons", if you know what I mean? Proud of what I have in my bag helps that confidence factor too.

Of course hitting the fairways and outdistancing my playing partners 100% of the time would do a lot for that confidence. If I found a clone that could do that no matter how ugly it was...well you know, "she might be ugly but man can she cook. Although not a clone my Ping eye2s fall into this category. Maybe not ugly but a plain Jane, no makeup, slightly plump, does most everything asked of her. Even though I pratice poligomy (have more than one set of irons that is) I love her the most

I know that the OEMs have had to have done a lot of R&D in their iron development. Just because an iron 'looks like or compares to' doesn't mean it will IMHO. These are my thoughts, I'm not a designer

Take:
1. Callways late model X irons. That undercut cavity? Take your little finger and slip it under it , it's graduated distance from the back of the face on the long and short irons. The cheap knock offs/look alikes are all the same distance.
2. The Fusion? Patented chamber behind the face.
3. Big Bertha or Cleveland perimeter weight design? Easily duplicated, but how well did the knockoffs adjust that low weight behind the face.I'm sure the OEMs have gone though thousands of prototypes before they found the weighting was just right behind the center groove line, the 3rd groove line? Not sure where it is but doubt the knockoff would have gone thru so much reserch to find it either?
4. The Nike slingshot? Joining of the harder 455 stainless thinner face to the 431 stainless body. The knockoff just your regular cast 431 stainless head? How about that arch? Is it designed and placed just where the tests have shown it does the best? I'm betting it is.

The list goes on and on.

Clones/knockoffs have their place. For a brand new golfer he/she can get a set made for throw away price. Afterwards they find they really like the game, by then, have done their research and doing what your doing, asking around. The best of both worlds? The feel and the pride of being married to looks and can cook.

Some of us buy it for price, others for looks or feel and still others for magic. It really boils down to the Indian. A 5 or so handicapper is going to be able to beat us duffers with anything he/she hits with

my 2 cents, well considering how long, my buck twenty's worth

[doogkie]

Re: Component replacements for irons

when i meant clones are as good as components i mean as in price range, these are good deals for the beginner, like i started off with a walmart set ,went to some clones, had some success, better than walmart for sure, but my next set is going to be some good ones, custom dynamic fitted to me

as for a 5 handicapper beating duffers with anyclub....you are exactly right

[westcoast941]

Re: Component replacements for irons

Hey Doogkie: I was not really calling anyone out on this. I did mention price factor the end of my post. Just clones are similar but many are far from duplicating the quailty or capabilities of the club they're patterned from.

But really the last thing I want to see is another clone vs OEM heated discussion which usually ends ugly by one calling the other names and forgetting the original question that was asked

I too was seriously investingating clones. After reading Pine meadow golf's article concerning clones http://www.pinemeadowgolf.com/clubs101_5.html .

After educating myself from my addiction to reading everything I can find on golf and construction, I've come to the conclusion there are some clubs out there that just can't be built the same as some OEMs. There is no way those foundries can build exact clones or similar and expect to keep their contracts with the OEMs. IMHO

For me personally if I bought clone it would be because of the style of the club. I had to have, but not willing to pay the OEM price. And would probably be Acer, Pine Meadow.

I am considering making a clone set for my wife patterned after the TAYLOR MADE R7 CGB MAX IRONS. That club has an extremely large sweet spot, almost the whole face. The pattern seems to be easily duplicated such as the T7 LCG Iron. Bought her a complete set Aspire M5 with bag 2 mos ago on Ebay. I just want to build her a set to match her.

She loves the game and we been paying 2-3 times a week now either the front or back 9 of our muni. Prices just dropped May 1st to $6.70 for 9holes

As far as dept store clubs. I kind of like some of the Ram designs. Made by Tommy Armour which is owned by Callaway. I'd have to think being owned by Callway some of that R&D has had to filter down right? they need to get rid of that big circle around the R of Ram on the sole. Makes it look too department storeish.

My first set of new was 7-8 yrs ago. Knight Stratus, patterned from Olimar trimetal, full complete set with bag at Sams club. Think I paid $99. Never could hit them, used them for one summer and hung up golf for a few yrs.

Now that I have developed a swing I've taken those Knights out to the range and hit the irons as well as anything else. That's not really saying much but it was never the arrow just the Indian

[doogkie]

Re: Component replacements for irons

yeah youre right, some clones would work better than others, clones of the fusion, yeah they are titanium but what about the patented chamber(you said it earlier), but any club with good perimeter weighting is going to be forgiving so that is easily cloned

the tolerances arnt as strict and thats pretty bad cause OEMs can already have lofts messed up a little, think just how bad clones might be?

yeah i could probably hit them walmart clubs pretty decent nowdays, never really hit them bad except for the driver, that was a fishing pole

Pine Meadow is a good company, most of there equipment is made by them and they do a good job, and you cant beat the money back gurantee...no hassle, i had my clubs changed one time

[westcoast941]

Re: Component replacements for irons

Callaway's patented core seems a lot more thought out? not sure what it looks like taken apart but here's a sample of it.
http://www.callawaygolf.com/en.CLUBS...sionIrons.html

other core's in their fusion clone look a light like this one from Pinemeadow.
http://www.pinemeadowgolf.com/golf-c...ns.ti3179.html

Seems to me the clone cores are simply covers? Again not sure what Callaway has inside their core it might just be a 'box'?

[agent99]

Re: Component replacements for irons

http://www.gigagolf.com/utility_listing.jsp click on the Select 5000 Hybrid

Despite what others have said, I believe that the hybrids known as Select 5000 or Power Play 5000 are excellent buys.

I have hit name brand hybrids that friends have as well as at the stores in Myrtle Beach and either I just don't like the "look" of them (e.g Taylormade, Titleist) or the shafts are not that great. I have not tried the Nike CPR . I do like the look of the Hogan hybrids and they are more reasonably priced, but still somewhat high (they went up about 50% in past year!)

I have the Powerplay 5000 #2 and #4 with Irod hybrid shafts - these don't come cheap (about $65.00 each), but with True Temper shafts, price would have been about C$30.00.

I believe I can hit my hybrids as well as the guys I play with who use name-brand hybrids (and these guys are all single digit hcp players).

The rest of my clubs are name brand (Titleist irons, Taylormade R5 driver), but I would not swap my PP 5000 hybrids for anything except the Ben Hogan hybrids and then, only if they have the Irod or equivalent shaft.

At the moment, I think the name brand hybrid clubs are way over-priced. I just can't see why some should cost almost US$200 when the Power Play with the very best shaft is a fraction of the price.

For those who are knocking these clubs - Try them first!

[gord962]

Re: Component replacements for irons

As I have mentioned countless times here, my two personal reccomendations are Ashton for woods and hybrids, Snake Eyes for irons, both component companies.

Everyone had their own opinions as to what they think is the best and that's why this is a public forum, so that everyone can state their own opinion and those who are looking for info can pick out the info they find relevant.

[agent99]

Re: Component replacements for irons

Everyone had their own opinions as to what they think is the best and that's why this is a public forum, so that everyone can state their own opinion and those who are looking for info can pick out the info they find relevant.

Very True - We are all entitled to our opinions and likes and dislikes and that is what is great about a Forum like this!

I did look at the Ashton hybrids, and they do have some good features, like the adjustable lie. But how many of us would have had the lie adjusted on the fairway woods we are replacing? I recently bought a Hogan 3-wood because my old one had a flatish sole and sat heel down at address. The Hogan has a curved sole that seems to overcome this problem. I personally do not like the "look" of the Ashton hybrids - but that is just my personal feeling about it - others will no doubt love them.

The Ashtons are pricy though - They cost as much or more than the Ben Hogan's do in a retail store and more than double the Power Play 5000,s

[gord962]

Re: Component replacements for irons

Anyone who adjusts their irons would probably have adjusted their FWs, but that isn't a large group of people. But, if you are really short or really tall this would definitely be an attractive feature. The hybrids are only $60, seems reasonable to me. I haven't used the hybrids myself, but I built a couple for my boss and he loves them.

I am a HUGE supporter of their fairway woods and feel that they are WAY undercosted for the quality and performance you get. Last time out I hit the center of green twice with my 3 wood from 270 out off the fairway and 250 out from the rough. I did the same with the 5 wood from 240 on the fairway and 220 out of the rough.

Other than the great performance, the other reason for such support from me is that Ashton is a Canadian company. I really am happy to support out any Canadian business as long as the product is comparable and these all fit that bill hands down.

[agent99]

Re: Component replacements for irons

The hybrids are only $60, seems reasonable to me. I haven't used the hybrids myself, but I built a couple for my boss and he loves them.

That sounds better! - I got my prices from this website - scroll down to near bottom for pricing for made up clubs!

http://www.clubmaker-online.com/ashton.xbrid.html

Other than the great performance, the other reason for such support from me is that Ashton is a Canadian company. I really am happy to support out any Canadian business as long as the product is comparable and these all fit that bill hands down.

Must have a look at their other stuff - After all, we should buy locally if we can!

[gord962]

Re: Component replacements for irons

Check ouy http://www.customclubshop.com/index....c21454937ea1e5

This is the supplier I use to buy a lot of my suuplies from. LowPost will agree that they are very helpful and provide great support.

The site you provided want $50 USD per head and another $90 USD to build the club. I assume there is about $40 worth of labour in there...

[agent99]

Re: Component replacements for irons

Check ouy http://www.customclubshop.com/index....c21454937ea1e5

This is the supplier I use to buy a lot of my suuplies from. LowPost will agree that they are very helpful and provide great support.

I have bought stuff from those guys - seemed like a good outfit. More recently, I have used SG Distributing in Kingston:
http://www.sgdistributing.com/

I checked cost of Ashton hybrid from Custom Clubmaking - It was as follows for similar shaft and grip to my Powerplay:

Head $58.45 + Irod hybrid shaft $41.75 + grip $4.00 = C$104.00 - My club came to about $65.00 for same spec.

With steel shafts, both clubs would be quite a bit less.

[gord962]

Re: Component replacements for irons

I would be interested to see the performance comparison between the two with the same shaft at the same frequency. I wonder how much of a difference between a $60 and a $20 head there would be....

[LowPost42]

Re: Component replacements for irons

The real trick is using an out-of-province supplier

[gord962]

Re: Component replacements for irons

doesn't matter to me - Alberta doesn't have provincial tax - we are the rich province with no debt and low income tax. lol