New fitting idea **open discussion**

[xix]

Re: New fitting idea **open discussion**

I'm actually thinking about having every individual iron tweaked for lie angle.
I'm going to take a lie board to my practice area in the off season and hit maybe 30 shots per club, then get them adjusted according to what the indicator mark on the sole reads.
This will be done after i've used Lowposts MOI matching calculator to weigh and adjust my clubs.

[LowPost42]

Re: New fitting idea **open discussion**

hi lowpost
so how would a balanced set of say a 5 to a wedge play if the all had same shaft lengths, i sure most of us have hit a 7 iron with the face closed and got it as far as we hit a 5 iron so it the loft that controls the distance more that the shaft length.
just saw two smt drivers on e-bay for £16 for both a inception 5% driver and a carnoustie 6% driver, dont see many smt items on e-bay.
item no 180032208952.
bill

Well, if I could figure out the appropriate tipping, then after making all clubs the same length, you'd simply tweak your lofts to produce consistent yardage gaps; and change all your lies to be proper.

The reason you don't see many SMT items on eBay is because SMT has a 'no eBay' policy. You only see used stuff there. New stuff should be reported to SMT.

[LowPost42]

Re: New fitting idea **open discussion**

I got my irons and my driver from e bay.
I'm now biding my time until I see some Avocet rescue woods for sale then I can replace my 5 and 7 woods and have a bag full of SMT gear (except for my much loved, trusty White Hot 2 ball putter which I'll never replace).

If you're interested in replacing your fairway woods, there's closeout pricing on the Solitaire. The foundry where SMT gets them made shut down - and destroyed all the molds! Head to www.smtgolf.com for contact information, and to see what's left.

I personally don't like either the Solitaire or the Avocet. The weird wing on the end of the Solitaire looks weird to me, and the Avocet is too long heel to toe for my tastes.

[LowPost42]

Re: New fitting idea **open discussion**

From Golf Digest article "whats in my bag" Darrin Clarke 2004:

Irons
This mix-and-match set was the first combo set TaylorMade put together on tour. The 3- through 6-iron are rac Combo cavity-backs, and the 7-iron through pitching wedge are rac MB. The shafts are Royal Precision Rifle High steel, 7.5. My long irons are bent 3 degrees upright to help me draw the ball. My short irons are bent 1 degree flat to help me fade it.


I have never experimented with upright or flat but it seems to me that it would be easier to come from the inside on a more upright club.

Again, upright and flat don't close or open the clubface for you (unless you're hitting the turf, which again, will facilitate a heel dig or toe dig, respectively). Upright and flat help facilitate what looks like a pull or push, respectively. Now, Darren may have had them setup that way to get his ball to move dramatically without changing his swing much - the appearance of a sweeping draw or fade.

[LowPost42]

Re: New fitting idea **open discussion**

I'm actually thinking about having every individual iron tweaked for lie angle.
I'm going to take a lie board to my practice area in the off season and hit maybe 30 shots per club, then get them adjusted according to what the indicator mark on the sole reads.
This will be done after i've used Lowposts MOI matching calculator to weigh and adjust my clubs.

IMOO (the first O stands for outrageous ), every bendable club should be lie tested. Shops that say "well, we'll just test your 5 iron, then we know what to bend every club" are lazy; and very often, wrong.

The first thing that fails when you don't lie test every club is that in a normal set, you get progressively more bent over in your swing. Thus, you swing every club differently. This means that you come through the ball differently, too.
The second thing that fails is that each shaft is most likely NOT the same flex club-to-club. We've seen this in my other thread. So, toe droop will be different, club to club.
The third thing that fails is that each clubhead is most likely NOT bent perfectly into spec. Remember, tolerances are +/- 1°, so you could end up with clubs of different length at the same lie.

The spreadsheet will just give you the details to get to 7g steps between heads. The build is what gets you to a rough MOI match (8g steps between heads and 0.5" between clubs, or 7g steps and 0.4")

[LowPost42]

Re: New fitting idea **open discussion**

Hi G1,

I'm not sure what you're getting at in your post - can you flesh it out a little?

I'm all for challenging this fitting system (or, with this system, challening the status quo), and in essence am looking for the bugs (with the help of the forum), so that I can get a clearer picture of what is needed.

I'm definitely going 'against the grain' of the fitting world with this thought; but it seems like a worthwhile pursuit, based on the simple logic. I still don't see how an optimal swing plane is one that changes based on club length. It seems to me that the optimal position is one set of 'coordinates', if you will. To deviate means that you start compromising or sacrificing. I built a test club with an older shaft and an old 5 iron. I swung it next to my current 5 iroin (shorter and the lie was more upright). I could immediately feel the pressure in my lower back with my current 5 iron. I felt like I could swing the test club all day, and not get tired. This is the model I'm trying to pursue. We've already had great ideas about potential issues: shaft flex, head weights, swingweights/moi...

My overall impression is that these clubs will be longer than standard (for myself = 6' tall with a 37" wrist to floor measurement), and that they'll be heavier (due to increased head weight, unless I go to a lighter weight shaft), but that the swingweight will increase as well, progressively (counteracted by backweighting).

Please poke holes - I'm liking my inital results, and am trying to make this thing watertight. Who knows? GTO'ers may just have a hand in the fitting method of the future.

[Started2k3]

Re: New fitting idea **open discussion**

Just out of curiosity did you go with:
- "swingweight" or "MOI"
- "normal flex method" or "single frequency profile method"
matching for your clubs

[LowPost42]

Re: New fitting idea **open discussion**

Hi cmays,

It seems to me like David went with 'one shaft length, many lie angles'. I should actually take a look at one of his sets of irons - maybe I'm just reinventing his wheel. Although, my impression is that all his clubs are built to one length.

I guess it's time to build a test set, and see what I get, using standard lie angles (1° step between irons). Who knows? Maybe they'll all be the same length...

Started2k3, my current set is built shorter than standard (intentionally, off the old theory that shorter clubs are more accurate), and MOI matched. The shafts follow their frequency slope, and come out to a firm on the Kaufman flex chart (but stiff+ for the shafts).

The new set I'm going to build (was going to start tonight, but installed shelving instead) is going to be a set of Wishon 550C Limited Edition heads with Wishon Series 5 steel shafts trimmed to X flex, built to length based on my optimum athletic position. My plan is to build, then measure them for length, swingweight and MOI. Ahead of time, I will weight sort the shafts, and weigh the heads. Due to the longer length, I think I will try to go with a 5g step between heads. Obviously this will require some creative tip trimming, but I think that it will show itself in the build to test for the slope. Then I will play them, and readjust for an MOI match (by weight) if necessary.

[chappy01]

Re: New fitting idea **open discussion**

Re: Posture change with shorter clubs:

I may be wrong, but after checking myself in a mirror, my posture is exactly the same with all clubs except my putter. The only difference is that as the clubs get shorter I stand closer to the ball, that is why the lie angle changes on the clubs. I do not bend over any more as they get shorter...

[LowPost42]

Re: New fitting idea **open discussion**

An interesting point, chappy.

So then it could be said that you get more crowded?

[chappy01]

Re: New fitting idea **open discussion**

No more crowded, my hands are the same distance from my thighs, the shorter club dictates that you are closer to the ball.

[ogallalabob]

Re: New fitting idea **open discussion**

I would be similar with Chappy. I do not believe my posture changes a lot maybe just slightly. If it does change it would be a slight tilt at the waste, which should not effect your ability to shift weight or athletic movement.

Besides, I hit my wedges great. If anything most golfers have the problem with the longer clubs. (why hybrids are so marketable)

So, if you are going with 1 shaft length, what would the ideal length be 7 iron??

Anyway have you made a set? how are the results?

[LowPost42]

Re: New fitting idea **open discussion**

Hi Bob, Chappy,

I have made a set of clubs based on this principle (and a really, really good math model). I've been playing them for the last 3 rounds.

The model I used was to keep 1° lie spacing between clubs (so my 9i was 63, 8i 62, so on and so forth), a standard wrist-to-floor measurement, and 33° of spine tilt (I remember reading in GD that 33° was optimal). Now, obviously this is where some camera work and some video dissection would be good to find a golfers personal 'perfect' spine angle.

At any rate, my 2 iron (yes, 2 iron) is 38 and 3/4 inches, with a 58° lie angle. My 9i through SW are 36 and 1/2" with a 64° lie. So, in some respect, my long irons are shorter, and my short irons are longer than standard (seeing as how a 5 iron is usually 38", and wedges 35" or 35.5").

I put the same swing on every club (whether or not my swing is good is another story altogether). In fact, today, I had the worst no-brainer I've ever had - and I largely attribute it to the fact that I'm in the same posture for every club. My 7 iron and my 3 iron sit next to one another in my bag. I grabbed my 7 instead of my 3. Flushed it, fine, but wasn't nearly in the position I expected to be!

What I'm finding with this set is that it sets up very similar to what Chappy is describing. Everything else stays the same, but the clubhead is closer to your feet (marginally). But the other strange thing that occured was that I didn't end up with neat, tidy 1/2" steps between my clubs. (This has certainly made for some interesting theorizing about shaft tipping, but then I came to my senses and built to the slope). I was closer, I found, to a 'quick and dirty' MOI match. Now, I still have to put these clubs on the period counter, etc, and see where they're actually at. But overall, this is the nicest hitting set I've ever played. I don't feel cramped or hunched over. I feel lively and athletic on every swing. There is no tension in my body before I swing... just fantastic.

Chappy - is your set built to standard?

[chappy01]

Re: New fitting idea **open discussion**

Actually I am playing with a set of Titleist 962B's that came from a touring pro. These are 1/2" over standard with the lies adjusted to suit my height and setup. Apart from that standard.

[mont86]

Re: New fitting idea **open discussion**

lowpro so shafts are all the same? And if so how does your 3 and 4 iron play.