Effect of loft angle change

[Collie]

Hi Guys
Just bought new Callaway X20's. I have always hit my irons quite high. Will adjusting the lofts of the irons give me a better/lower ballflight?

[LowPost42]

Re: Effect of loft angle change

Yes, adjusting the lofts stronger will lower your ball flight, and increase your distance. The clubheads will also increase in their tendency to dig (as you'll be reducing the bounce).

A better thing to look at is your swing - are you flipping your hands at impact (which create a high ball flight)? Do you have a ton of swing speed (which creates a high ball flight)? Are you playing Callaways? (Designed for high ball flight?)

[Collie]

Re: Effect of loft angle change

Nope, not a lot of swingspeed - with irons about 80. Playing Callaways yes , but previously had Pings and also hit them high.
How been told on the instruction thread to keep the left wrist straight etc. , but thought by changing the loft angle it might help. Have been playing for 10 years and don't know how I'm going to get this left wrist story changed.

[LowPost42]

Re: Effect of loft angle change

Well, Collie, this will be my 4th Canadian season (we only get to play 6, sometimes 7 months out of the year). I decided this winter to get serious about my swing (I'd rather be good because of my swing, not good despite my swing).

I spent some time with a swing coach in the Orlando area. The first day, all I did for an hour was set my wrists (like I was hitting with a Greg Norman Secret), and hit little chip shots without flipping my hands. Holding the cup in my right wrist (I'm a RH golfer) automatically produced a flat left wrist. My coach had mentioned that it took him 6 months to get rid of his flip. I didn't ask how long he had been playing with a flip that required 6 months of daily work to remove it. Fortunately for me, I don't think I've been playing long enough to have to wait 6 months to wait for my flip to disappear.

Here's the thing about changing your lofts. Right now, we'll say your clubs look like this:

Club:Loft

PW:48
9: 44
8: 39
7: 35
6: 31
5: 27
4: 22

Now, loft is the #1 determiner of distance and trajectory. But if we take every club and bend it 4° strong (and assume that we have 4° of bounce to work with) we get this:

Old #'s / New #'s

PW:48 / 44
9: 44 / 40
8: 39 / 35
7: 35 / 31
6: 31 / 27
5: 27 / 23
4: 22 / 18

Essentially, you'll be 1 club longer with everything. Sure, your trajectories will be lower (your 7 iron will go as high as your 6 iron now), but you'll be pulling 7 iron from where you used to pull 6. So from the same yardage, you'll still get the same trajectory. To add to that, most clubs only have 3° of bounce - so the most you'll want to bend is 2° before you'll have to re-grind the soles to give yourself some bounce again (otherwise your clubs will dig like crazy).

Just some things to think about.

[Mox]

Re: Effect of loft angle change

The X20 is not a high-trajectory iron by design.
They do have a fairly high launch angle, but the low spin off the face helps keep the trajectory reasonably low.

Are you using the uniflex steel shafts or are you on graphite?

You might want to consider getting a shaft with a stiffer tip (higher "kickpoint"). That should help lower the trajectory a little.

But as others have mentioned, the reason could be a flip of the wrist, or even early release of the hands, so have a pro look you over.

[LowPost42]

Re: Effect of loft angle change

The X20 is not a high-trajectory iron by design.

Mox? Ignoring for a minute that Callaway's signature is being 'the best in OEM game improvement', I ask you to look at the following two points regarding the X20 head:

First, the big, wide, heavy sole. A number 1 feature in moving the CG back and low - designed to get the trajectory up.

Second, even from the literature, the X20 boasts about how the shorter the irons get, the lower and further back the CG gets - both working to send the ball sky high.

I hate to say it, but the X20 is just a rehash and rebadge of the Wishon 770 CFE. The thin face, the undercut channel, the wide, heavy sole... nothing new here - but definitely designed for distance (thin face), and high trajectory.

I daresay, sir, that X20's are designed to help you get the ball up. Now, as every other company is doing, I see we have a 41° 9 iron and a 45° PW. So your trajectory is already 'low' compared to irons made at the turn of the century. (I love using that term). What I find even more interesting is that the X20 Tour are only 1° weaker than the straight up X20.

[Mox]

Re: Effect of loft angle change

Nope, sorry.

While I completely agree with every word you say about the X20 design, it doesn't work out quite like that in the end.

First of all, notice my very deliberate use of the word "high-trajectory" as opposed to "high-launch".

I agree, that the design of the X20 head, placing weight low and back, will help a high launch.
That does not by default mean high trajectory though.

If the ball leaves the clubface at a lower speed and with less backspin, the trajectory will be lower than a high speed - high spin launch at the same angle.

In the march issue of Today's Golfer, the X20 is tested against 14 other current Game Improvement Irons.

The X20 has the 2nd highest launch angle, but the lowest ball speed and the 2nd lowest spin rate. That adds up to the 3rd lowest trajectory, the lowest hang time and 4th shortest carry.

So if you were to test the X20 against say the Ping G5 or the Mizuno MX25, the X20 will have the lowest trajectory.

Also remember that the X20 is not the low-handicappers choice in Callaway. They have the Fusion series as well as Big Bertha in that range. The X20 is intended for mid- to low-handicappers, who should be able to get the ball in the air, and need a more controllable and penetrating flight.

Concerning being bent stronger than others, the X20 is only stronger than, say the MX25 in the short irons. 6 and longer is the same. And again - this has more to do with launch angle than trajectory.

All that said, I'm off course not disputing that the X20 can put the ball in the air. Just that compared to other current models in the same bracket, a lot of the others are higher trajectory.

[Mox]

Re: Effect of loft angle change

Just to add ...

The test ended up crowning the Ping G5 irons and having the X20 and MX25 as first and second runners-up.

So the above should in no way be read as putting down the X20, only as information.

[LowPost42]

Re: Effect of loft angle change

Mmmmm... (nods).

Well said, Mox. It makes sense that they'd be short (in the test). If they're stronger lofted with a high launch but low spin, the low loft and spin would conspire to keep the flight short. Most amateurs need MORE spin, not less. I know the thin face makes for a hotter face (lots of guys cite the 770's as the longest irons they've ever hit) but I need to think more on this launch vs trajectory issue.

I suspect, initially, that you're right.

[Mox]

Re: Effect of loft angle change

I'm lucky enough to be able to test it soon, actually.

My cousin and weekly playing partner has just picked up a set of X20 to replace his Nike Slingshot clones.

He is very happy with the trajectory initially, he is not yet at a point where he attacks the greens directly and spin to stop. He sends it in short and let it bounce it's way to the dancefloor. His focus is direction and consistent distances, and as it looks, the X20 has given him a lot of that compared to his old clubs.

When I get a chance to hit them myself, I'll try to remember to come back here and hijack Collie's thread once more.

[LowPost42]

Re: Effect of loft angle change

Don't get me wrong - for the longest time I was looking for the highest trajectory iron I could find (I didn't hit the ball well, so was looking for stopping power by dropping the ball out of the sky).

The X20's were the kind of iron I wanted (I actually played the 770's). And I hit moonballs with them... hence my position.

[james.welsh]

Re: Effect of loft angle change

This is stating the obvious however FWIW, if you are hitting the ball a certain distance with a club and you feel you would rather hit it farther, use the next club up in your bag. It doesn't matter what distance your buddy hits with his 5 iron, all that matters is how far YOU hit a 5 iron. Over time this distance will improve.

The other thing to keep in mind is how strong / weak is your grip and do you tend to push / fade or pull / hook your shots? Sometimes a weaker grip will generally create a higher fading shot due to the relatively open face at impact.

If you were to strengthen your grip (closes the face at impact) you might find the trajectory lower and to the left a bit which will certainly mean the ball will tend to go farther. You'll need to adjust your aim a bit to the right.

If your buddy hits a PW 180 yards (I'm kidding) there's only so many ways that can happen. One way is he's a gorilla(!), but another way is to close the face -- a lot!