Unresolved swing flaws

[barney44]

I gave up golf many years ago because I could not fix two basic flaws in my swing - using my hands to early in the downswing and allowing my right wrist to bow out at impact. I got the club back pretty good with a full shoulder turn and started the downswing with the lower body moving the weight back to the leading foot. My left wrist was ahead of the ball at impact and firm (no flipping, but a bowed out rather than cupped right wrist). The casting action with my hands was even more frustrating. From videos, its clear that my downswing starts with my hips moving slightly lateral and turning. But, while trying to allow my arms and a hands to be passive and responsive to the lower body, I still feel a force on the wrists to open. I've tried many drills to fix this problem, but to no avail. Incidently, my practice swings show great club lag. but the bowed right wrist is still present at release. I'm retired now and have the time to practice. I always had scores in the low to mid 80's, but could never really improve. Am I stuck with these problems or is there a way to fix them ?

[Cliff]

Re: Unresolved swing flaws

Hi there, it must be great having all those days off on the golf course. I can't wait to retire, but I think my wife will shot me when I do lol...

Ok my friend can we find any photos of the problem, or a video of your swing or maybe you can locate a youtube golfer with the same swing fault. (Note if you find one on youtube then copy the LINK (thats the address at the top) and PASTE it in this FORUM Unresolved swing flaws

Without seeing the problem it is hard to diagnose a cure for it.

Regards Cliff

While we wait in anticipation ( I had a friend that was going through a tough period at work and golf, I told him to take a rest from golf for a couple of weeks then pack up altogether lol) I’m sure you have herd that before, but in your case I’m sure between us all on here we will sort out the problem.

From what you say happens. (a bowed out rather than cupped right wrist)

I tried to explain to a friend what he want’s to feel at impact. Like hitting a nail on the head you would not let your wrist bow out, if you did you would miss the head underneath it. But by understanding the retained wrist at impact and only letting the club past the hands at about 3-6 inches past the ball will help you understand what I mean. Maybe on the wrong track here but (still need to see photo of your impact front & back of swing would be great)

[barney44]

Re: Unresolved swing flaws

Thanks for your response. Certainly, posting a video of my swing makes sense when looking for flaws, but my camcorder is analog and my digitizer is broke. Anyway, looking at some of the archive posts has given me insight into things to work on. I read an instruction book 30 years ago called "The Four Moves To Winning Golf" by Joe Dante with Len Elliot. The book made sense then, and it still does today. I have noticed that there are references on the forum to some of their ideas which I plan to work on.

[ben hogan]

Re: Unresolved swing flaws

PLace a 2x4 6-7 inches to the right of the ball.

[jbrunk]

Re: Unresolved swing flaws

I gave up golf many years ago because I could not fix two basic flaws in my swing - using my hands to early in the downswing and allowing my right wrist to bow out at impact. I got the club back pretty good with a full shoulder turn and started the downswing with the lower body moving the weight back to the leading foot. My left wrist was ahead of the ball at impact and firm (no flipping, but a bowed out rather than cupped right wrist). The casting action with my hands was even more frustrating. From videos, its clear that my downswing starts with my hips moving slightly lateral and turning. But, while trying to allow my arms and a hands to be passive and responsive to the lower body, I still feel a force on the wrists to open. I've tried many drills to fix this problem, but to no avail. Incidently, my practice swings show great club lag. but the bowed right wrist is still present at release. I'm retired now and have the time to practice. I always had scores in the low to mid 80's, but could never really improve. Am I stuck with these problems or is there a way to fix them ?

Barney,

You want to try to make a divot in front of the ball, meaning your hands must be ahead of the clubhead at and through impact. The 2 most important things you need to learn to do this are:

You must have a good pivot,
You must learn to get your right shoulder down the plane as far as possible. These two things together are what really drives the golf swing. Once you can do this (while the hands just hold on), you've got it licked.

Joe Dante has some good stuff BTW.

[barney44]

Re: Unresolved swing flaws

Right SHOULDER down the plane ? Not sure exactly what you mean. Do you mean keeping the right shoulder under the plane on the downswing ? Can you explain ? Thanks.

[jbrunk]

Re: Unresolved swing flaws

Right SHOULDER down the plane ? Not sure exactly what you mean. Do you mean keeping the right shoulder under the plane on the downswing ? Can you explain ? Thanks.

Your right shoulder should go toward the ball or maybe even toward your left foot in the downswing. It does not go out, it goes down, down the plane of the swing. One of the ways you can practice this is to take your backswing and from the top, feel as though you are pulling your hands toward the ball. You will notice that as you do this the clubhead lags behind your hands. You will also notice that as your right shoulder goes down, the left goes up and back. When you combine this right shoulder downplane with an effective pivot, you will create lag and you will be on your way to more solid contact.

Take a look at Tiger's right shoulder as he begins the downswing:

[jambalaya]

Re: Unresolved swing flaws

I think some people naturally have quick hands and fight what you are talking about all the time. I am one of those. All I can say is awareness, awareness, awareness. You probably bring the club too far inside with your hands in the lead and your body senses a need to make a quick move to catch up with your forward momentum. There is no short answer to get from point A to where you need to go. I truly don't see how you can possible have a bowed right wrist at impact and not be flipping. If you have a bowed right wrist you must have a cupped left wrist unless you have a really funky grip. Speaking of grip, that would be a good place for you to start. I think I started to see improvement when I became more aware of my hand position at each point in the swing especially at the top. Making sure I have a flat left wrist at the top has helped a lot otherwise you are kind of preset to flip the club at the bottom.

[pnearn]

Re: Unresolved swing flaws

. But, while trying to allow my arms and a hands to be passive and responsive to the lower body, I still feel a force on the wrists to open

Thats something I used to feel a lot when I struggled a few years ago. Id always have to flip at the ball or try to force my hands to turn over else id just block it right. I learnt that what I was doing was swaying left instead of turning. This meant I had to lunge back at the ball and do things with my hands to square the clubface. Not sure if this is what you do but maybe try a wider stance, more knee bend and feel like you really turn back without swinging your hands to your side and pulling you (sway) - right hip in right pocket, turn in a barrel etc. If you do this right you just turn back and you dont really get that feeling that you need to square it with your hands.

Warning though. If this is what you do it will feel very strange to start with. Like a reverse pivot but it isnt!

Maybe worth a try? Like someone said, a video would probably show it all up

[pnearn]

Re: Unresolved swing flaws

. But, while trying to allow my arms and a hands to be passive and responsive to the lower body, I still feel a force on the wrists to open

Thats something I used to feel a lot when I struggled a few years ago. Id always have to flip at the ball or try to force my hands to turn over else id just block it right. I learnt that what I was doing was swaying left instead of turning. This meant I had to lunge back at the ball and do things with my hands to square the clubface. Not sure if this is what you do but maybe try a wider stance, more knee bend and feel like you really turn back without swinging your hands to your side and pulling you (sway) - right hip in right pocket, turn in a barrel etc. If you do this right you just turn back and you dont really get that feeling that you need to square it with your hands.

Warning though. If this is what you do it will feel very strange to start with. Like a reverse pivot but it isnt!

Maybe worth a try? Like someone said, a video would probably show it all up

[barney44]

Re: Unresolved swing flaws

My left wrist remains firm and is ahead of the ball at impact as evidenced by slow motion and paused video. However, the heel of the right hand separates from the left hand and club by at least an inch or so and bows outward. I've used both the overlapping and interlocking grip, but have changed to a combination of the two - keeping the interlock, but allowing the 4th finger of the right hand to move off the club and onto the index finger of the left hand, leaving only 2 fingers of the right hand on the club. The bowing problem occurs with all grips that I've used. A device called 'The Secret' which forces the the trailing wrist to remain in a cupped position has helped considerably.

[BrianW]

Re: Unresolved swing flaws

My left wrist remains firm and is ahead of the ball at impact as evidenced by slow motion and paused video. However, the heel of the right hand separates from the left hand and club by at least an inch or so and bows outward. I've used both the overlapping and interlocking grip, but have changed to a combination of the two - keeping the interlock, but allowing the 4th finger of the right hand to move off the club and onto the index finger of the left hand, leaving only 2 fingers of the right hand on the club. The bowing problem occurs with all grips that I've used. A device called 'The Secret' which forces the the trailing wrist to remain in a cupped position has helped considerably.

That's a very unnatural position for your right hand and can only be like that due to your right elbow flying out. Do you maintain a straight left arm at impact or are you chicken winging it?

[30yearlayoff]

Re: Unresolved swing flaws

Hey all....it's been awhile since I've posted. Been out bz on my swing.

Anyway, to any one interested, I have a link to a free copy of Dante's book. This is not a spam or scam. You can go right to the site and cut and paste it, free and legally.

I just got it and it was a great find. I learned one thing about the swing that will stay with me forever.

Though it's 30+ years old, you'd swear it was more recent (except for a few things like iron lengths and lofts and some of the pros referenced).

[Matt10]

Re: Unresolved swing flaws

I've found two things that have revived my game in regards to my full swing with irons.

1. Backswing, keep right elbow as close to my side as possible.

2. Downswing, feel as if my hands are well ahead of the ball. This is such a great feeling on contact - I always heard the term, but never actually felt I could accomplish the sensation. One day on the course, by myself, I tried it on a 175 level par 3. 170 Club is usually my 5 iron; so I hit it - and the ball sailed 180 (GPS measured). So next shot, 6 iron, pured it - 4 feet from the cup.

Now my yardage is at least one club less than before; I'm so glad I finally found some consistency with my irons. Driver and woods - another story.