Re: the right elbow and the downswing.

[buteman]

One of my golf partners was having a real struggle with his swing, iron play in particular, I have a habit of never offering advice at any time so I left it alone. He had a half hour lesson from one of our pros' prior to teeing off yesterday and the difference was nothing short of magical.
Distance and accuracy was like night and day compared to the last couple of rounds we played together. He told me that after a few poorly hit irons on the practice range the pro. had him tuck his right elbow in closer to his body at the start of the downswing and keep it there coming down.
On the first hole after hitting a good drive he hit a crisp seven iron from 155 yards to 15 feet and he continued to hit similar shots during our round. I guess there is a lot of importance in the position of that right elbow in the downswing,,,,,,,any thoughts on this guys ?

[Neil18]

Re: the right elbow and the downswing.

Oh yes the right elbow is very important.

1. It keeps your lower right arm connected to your upper right arm
2. It allows the arm to "bend", which serves several functions
3. It contains the "funny bone" which is anything but

Seriously, the movement of the right elbow leads to so many steep downswings it's untrue.

If you happen to have your swing on camera from down the line, when at the top of the swing, draw a line from the point of your right elbow to the ball. On the downswing, the elbow should not go below that line during the downswing. Most peoples do. It's why so many golfers can't get a shallow angle of attack.

Lead the right hand into the shot with the right elbow tucked infront of you.

Does wonders for power and accuracy.

[jbrunk]

Re: the right elbow and the downswing.

One of my golf partners was having a real struggle with his swing, iron play in particular, I have a habit of never offering advice at any time so I left it alone. He had a half hour lesson from one of our pros' prior to teeing off yesterday and the difference was nothing short of magical.
Distance and accuracy was like night and day compared to the last couple of rounds we played together. He told me that after a few poorly hit irons on the practice range the pro. had him tuck his right elbow in closer to his body at the start of the downswing and keep it there coming down.
On the first hole after hitting a good drive he hit a crisp seven iron from 155 yards to 15 feet and he continued to hit similar shots during our round. I guess there is a lot of importance in the position of that right elbow in the downswing,,,,,,,any thoughts on this guys ?

Your friend's good round notwithstanding, I think the right elbow is way overrated in the golf swing. A better teaching idea is to get the student to get the right SHOULDER down the plane as much as possible.

If your buddy is a slicer, then sure that swing thought may help him, but if he is a hooker/drawer.............eh, not so much.

[jambalaya]

Re: the right elbow and the downswing.

What a timely thread for me. I am reading and experimenting all kinds of things with the right arm and elbow. I have several questions about the right arm and elbow.

First, I have read many tips say to habe the right and left elbows pointing directly at the right and left hips respectively. Can one do this without rotating the elbows in a bit at address. I am pretty sure my right and left elbows point a little outside each hip.

The second question involves the right elbow retracting behind the body. Conventional two-plane swing theory suggests that we keep our arms in front of our body therefore it seems we cannot let the elbow retract behind us. The opposite seems to be true of a one-pane swing. In order to get the left arm to lay against our chest we seem to have to retact the right elbow behind us otherwise it will fly up I think.

Any thoughts about the right elbow or arm position in the swing would be appreciated.

[cyc53870]

Re: the right elbow and the downswing.

Very interesting stuff that Go Low mentioned about the shoulder swing... I copy-pasted it in golf my archives. Thanks.

[jambalaya]

Re: the right elbow and the downswing.

You should never have the left arm "laying across your chest". If you do, you have lost the triangle (of your chest and two arms). The hands and club needs to be in front of your chest, and the only way for that to happen is for your shoulders to turn as you move the arms and club into the backswing. In all likelihood you have just moved your arms and golf club but did not turn your shoulders anywhere near 90 degrees. Doing that would put the left arm against your chest instead of away from your chest where it needs to be. Having the left arm lay against the chest is not correct for any swing - two-plane, on-plane or somewhere in-between.

Another thing that many amateurs do is swing the arms way too far in their backswing. In other words the arms are moved so far that even a full shoulder turn of 90 degrees places the left arm against the chest instead of it forming one side of a triangle with the chest. When that happens the arms and club cannot be swung in the downstroke in a connected fashion with the shoulders and chest - they are left behind and trail the body. The arms really should not move (on their own) as far as many people think. It's the shoulder turn that gives people the idea that the arms travel so far. You're actually better off with too little arm movement versus too much arm movement.

First you need to figure out what your problem is: too little shoulder turn or too much arm swing...

It would be nice to see a shot of someone executing a one-plane swing looking straight at the top of their heads. I have read statements concerning the one-plane swing that seem to contradict what you say but maybe I am just taking it too far. I have heard many times about basically pinning the left bicep against the left pectoral muscle in a one-plane swing. Maybe my entire left arm would not be against my chest in that case but it seems the arm has to move back somewhat. If I lift my arms straight up from my address position the left bicep is in no way pressed up against the left pectoral. Now I have also heard many teachers tell us to keep our arms in front of our chests but thought maybe that is for more of a two-plane swing. Before, I always strived to keep my arms in front of my chest. However after watching a lot of Jeff Ritter's videos that did not seem to be the case. So, am I just exaggerating the move I think is being described? Do I have the arms centered directly in front of my chest?

Oh yeah, how about my question concerning the elbows at address? If my right elbow is not pointing at my right hip but rather outside the hip should I do something about it. I experimented with that at the range and doing so seemed to connect my right arm to my body better. It also helped me keep the left wrist flatter. I noticed that when the right elbow flys out the right arm pushes back on the left hand creating a tendency to cup the left wrist. My make it easier to keep the left wrist flat throughout the downswing with the elbows closer in.

[jambalaya]

Re: the right elbow and the downswing.

Thanks for all the help Go Low. Funny you should mention the swearing in position with the right hand and reaching with the left hand to simulate the arm positions. I was doing that without turning the shoulders to see what it would look like and that really gives one a good picture and feeling of where we need to be at the top. Thanks again. I can't wait to go to the range again.

[Rackster]

Re: the right elbow and the downswing.

A great thread here with some great comments.

Harvey Penick was a great advocate of bringing the right elbow down to your body in the down swing.

[AvidGolfer]

Re: the right elbow and the downswing.

It would be nice to see a shot of someone executing a one-plane swing looking straight at the top of their heads.

Its not from straight on top of his head, but linked below is a video clip of Ernie Els (considered by Hardy a one plane swinger) shot from above him.

http://drop.io/ernieelsabove

[jambalaya]

Re: the right elbow and the downswing.

Its not from straight on top of his head, but linked below is a video clip of Ernie Els (considered by Hardy a one plane swinger) shot from above him.

http://drop.io/ernieelsabove

You need a password for that link.

[AvidGolfer]

Re: the right elbow and the downswing.

You need a password for that link.

Try it again now. The password requirement should now have been removed.

[bill reed]

Re: the right elbow and the downswing.

hi
do you think Ernie is hitting a fade. look at the divot he takes and how it seems to start heal first and the way he seems to lay the club off to the left at the top of the backswing.
he also seems to be looking to the right after the swing like he has hit a high fade.
what do you think???
cheers
bill

[edhannan]

Re: the right elbow and the downswing.

If you happen to have your swing on camera from down the line, when at the top of the swing, draw a line from the point of your right elbow to the ball. On the downswing, the elbow should not go below that line during the downswing. Most peoples do. It's why so many golfers can't get a shallow angle of attack.

???
"should not go below..."
Just looked at the swings of three pros. Each has his elbow going below that line.
Either nobody's reading or nobody cares.

[GolfGurl]

Re: the right elbow and the downswing.

Oh yes the right elbow is very important.

1. It keeps your lower right arm connected to your upper right arm
2. It allows the arm to "bend", which serves several functions
3. It contains the "funny bone" which is anything but

Seriously, the movement of the right elbow leads to so many steep downswings it's untrue.

If you happen to have your swing on camera from down the line, when at the top of the swing, draw a line from the point of your right elbow to the ball. On the downswing, the elbow should not go below that line during the downswing. Most peoples do. It's why so many golfers can't get a shallow angle of attack.

Lead the right hand into the shot with the right elbow tucked infront of you.

Does wonders for power and accuracy.

Wondering if you have seen a good video that illustrates this action? I can use the help. thanks.

[edhannan]

Re: the right elbow and the downswing.

Wondering if you have seen a good video that illustrates this action? I can use the help. thanks.

Ignore Neil's comment. It's dead wrong. I suppose he meant that the elbow should not go above that line or the downswing will be too steep.

Here's a useful drill: