Push Release?

[Neil18]

Re: Push Release?

Hi Bill,

Here is a couple of good videos from the great guy himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Eqho...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v71vh9uKW4

How ironic that in one clip he says the only thing you can learn from him is hard work, but then in the next clip he's got instructional videos.

All about the money is it??!!

[bill reed]

Re: Push Release?

hi Neil
Trevino hits a draw still with a open stance but i cant do that if i really have to hit a draw i have to set up with a closed stance and roll the wrists over but hitting a draw now gives me back pain so i don't play a draw just in case i do damage my spin again.
the last 18 months or so i have been using just a fade and if a have a big dogleg to the left and then i play a fade to the bend even it its only 180 yards and then have a really long second.
i really don't know how Trevino hits a draw as he still seems to stop his hands rolling but i have seem him live in 1978 as one of his shows and he was hitting 50 gallon drums 100, 150, 200 yard and taking bets at what club and what type of shot and he could do it all. hit it high, low, turn 5 iron into a 1 iron or into a wedge. that when i started to try and copy him and copy his swing and research his system.
once you start to believe in playing Trevino/Blake system, i have found it easer to use that the normal system as there is less to go wrong and you faults are easer to work out.
i don't think there are many people that use Trevino, Blake Or even Moe Norman systems but all three work and i also think that it suits the older player as there less stress on the body and and your legs give you more of the power so you don't loss as much as you get older, also your arms and shoulder follow your hips and its easer to keep your timeing and your not hitting so much with your upper body.
cheers
bill

[bill reed]

Re: Push Release?

hi Neil
here is a picture of Richard Wax using the Blake system and you can see how open his stance is and how the driver still looks at the target well past the ball. you can see how his right leg stops the hips swaying back but help in the forward move of his hips like in the clip of Trevino when he talks about his hips have to sway forward.
cheers
bill

[BrianW]

Re: Push Release?

Funny we should be taking about this kind of setup.

Now I have a confession to make! " I am twisted!" OK, OK! I know some of you will be saying that you knew that already but let me explain further.

If I stand at address with my feet and hips square and parallel to target my shoulders lie naturally closed by around 15%, if I lay a club across my chest it points out to the right. To compensate for this I have to set my feet 15% open, this brings my swing path back square and stops me pushing the ball.

Maybe it was due to an old golfing accident but as you know us veterans don't like to talk about it.

[bill reed]

Re: Push Release?

hi Brian
i think it goes to prove there is no "one golf swing to fit all" and like Bob Torrance said, teach the golfer to swing, don't teach the swing to the golfer.
cheers
bill

[bill reed]

Re: Push Release?

hi Go Low
who says there is a right way to swing a golf club. if you look you will see many player played well with the non-Leadbetter type swing.
i also know that the Trevino system works as i use it, also it is an easy system to learn and use and you can play to a good club level using it.

i do agree its not a system for every one and if you look at the college system almost every golfer has the same swing but that is down to the coaching and if you had a Trevino now in college the coach would be getting him to change his swing.

i think it what works for you and what you enjoy then do it, i do enjoy playing this way and i have fun playing with my friends and at my club and i have tried playing the "normal way" and its not as much fun and you have to try and work at it, i can play once a month and still play well using the Trevino system, its not something you have to keep tweaking.

i also find i can hit a lot more kinds of shots that a lot of my playing partners and i put that down to the Trevino system and the way its so easy to hit a high fade or a low fade. you can easily control the amount of run on a ball and hold up even long irons on a green and thats something i could not do when i use to play a draw as my standard game.

i know there are a lot of people out there that do play Trevino, Blake and Moe Norman system and get great enjoyment out of playing "easy golf".
cheers
bill

[BrianW]

Re: Push Release?

I'm not sure why anyone would want to adopt Lee Trevino's open stance, flat plane swing with a hold-on push release. Sure, Trevino won many tournaments but... If his swing style was so good why don't we see the best players in the world swinging like him? Trevino could not hit the ball very high and unless he was on top of his game, which he was most of the time, he couldn't turn the ball over with consistency. He didn't care for hilly golf courses or dog-leg left holes like at the Masters. Trevino made his unusual swing work for him, but that does not mean it will be the best for the golf masses. I just find it very strange that anyone would actually want to copy Trevino's highly unorthodox swing unless they have totally given up on swinging the club like it's supposed to be swung...

The reason is "Because they can"

Who says how a club is supposed to be swung ? Many great and good golfers use or have used different swing styles but have managed to play at a high standard.

Should we all swing a club like you, or Tiger, or Ernie, or Furyk or who?

It does not matter how, it matters how many. Just cut a little slack and understand that the only thing that really matters in the golfswing is how the clubface contacts the ball in that half a millisecond of impact. Each to their own and thank goodness for individuality.

[bill reed]

Re: Push Release?

hi Go Low
i use it because it works, do you really think i would use a system that don't work. what would i have to gain.
if you look you will see the Trevino is the best pro striker of the ball in golf and even Tiger said he was the best striker of the ball he has ever seen.
what the swing does it puts the club face square on the back of the ball time after time and even i play 95% of the time on the fairway but you do lose about 10 yards on your drive but that the choice.
if you look at Fred Couples you will see he has an open stance, look at Monty he also is open and jack also played open, but there is as many great player that play close stance and a few that have an inline stance. some swing with a one plane swing and some a two plane swing, you have the likes of Sandy Lyle that only had a 3/4 back swing and he hit the longest at last years open at the age of 50, (346 yards).
there is not a right way to swing only ways that work for you.
you say the swing should be like how it was invented then i think you should go and see how the great played like Old Tom Morris and Wullie Park, Davie Brown and Mungo Park.
all played with an open stance as that was how they played in the late 1800 and early 1900, tweed jackets and in a barrel type swing.
her is two pictures of th great Musselburgh champions.

[BrianW]

Re: Push Release?

By all means swing the golf club any way you wish. But as I said, "I just find it very strange that anyone would actually want to copy Trevino's highly unorthodox swing unless they have totally given up on swinging the club like it's supposed to be swung..."

I think it's pretty safe to say that the way the golf club was originally swung when the game was invented has been confirmed to be the most efficient. The golf swing has been refined throughout time by trial and error as well as science and I do not recall ever hearing from a reliable source that Trevino's unorthodox golf swing should be copied. While it's true there have been some unusual swings among the professionals over the years I do not recall ever seeing or hearing about a professional wanting to copy an unorthodox swing.

I have never seen or heard of a college coach that tried to change a collegiate players swing - that simply does not happen. Collegiate players are chosen for their playing abilities, attitude and how they will fit into the team...with their abilities representing 90%. Collegiate players have refined their swings since they first began playing as a small child, and rarely can a golf coach compete with his/her team's players.

But...swing the golf club however YOU think it is best swung, and if you don't believe the teaching professionals, the science and math (physics) and world's highest level of players then so be it. Good luck!

You may find it strange but then you seem to suggest that you have a superior understanding of "swinging the club like it's supposed to be swung..."

Please try to understand that what happens in the swing is irrelevant other than the way the clubface approaches and contacts the ball.

Another consideration for you is that this forum is not designed to coach or promote the improvement of tour/inspiring tour players, it is a community of club/recreational golfers sharing their experiences and helping each other.

If you wish to engage a conversation on the science and math (physics) of golf please feel free, as a Professional Engineer I relish the experience. Good luck to you Mon Ami.

[BrianW]

Re: Push Release?

As I said, "Good luck!"

Whats the adage? The more I play the luckier I get.

[bill reed]

Re: Push Release?

hi Brain
it was Gary Player i think said that?
"the more i practice the luckier i get?"
cheers
bill

[pnearn]

Re: Push Release?

If I stand at address with my feet and hips square and parallel to target my shoulders lie naturally closed by around 15%, if I lay a club across my chest it points out to the right. To compensate for this I have to set my feet 15% open, this brings my swing path back square and stops me pushing the ball.

Thats really interesting Brian because in the last few rounds my shoulder alignment has been well off - my feet are 15% closed and my shoulders 15%open - I can feel it but im having trouble stopping it! This is causing me to come OTT and pull it or hit fades if hold off the release with my grip

I might try your idea to straighten me out a little. Any tips? Do you feel like you pre-rotated a little at address doing this i.e. right arm behind left, hips turned a little, right knee in etc?