Why I push the ball ?

[ThePuttKing65]

It's took me 15 years to find out the reasons why I hit the ball to the right.

What I do is twist the clubface open during the takeaway !

I'm finding it very difficult to stop doing this. When I do I hit the ball very well. When I don't, everything goes to the right.

I think it all goes back to when I started playing the game. I used to have split hands and my left hand twisted. Now I have a correct grip but I still have the habit of twisting my left hand. After a few moments of my takeaway I can see all 4 knuckles of my left hand. This leads to all my problems; head moving up, hands too high, flying right elbow !

What I'm doing at the moment to try and stop this twisting is lift up my hands a bit at address. This seems to work although if I lift them too much then I start twisting again.

It seems an unusual swing fault.

Does anybody else suffer from this problem and if so, how did you overcome it ?

[Great Scott]

Re: Why I push the ball ?

Right there with yas. I've been a pusher for a while, (finally resolved, Insh' Allah). Wedges, irons.. pushed the lot of them. Local law enforcment agencies considered me a suspect in EVERY MAJOR DRUG STING they've had going since I picked up a club. *

I

1) Had the ball too close to me at address

2) Did the hip-slide on my back swing. (Well... whaddya expect... you told me to move my weight to my back leg)

3) Ended my backswing FAR above my shoulders / off plane.

4) Unknowingly dorsiflexed my left wrist at the start of my downswing, (as pointed out by an instructor, (hint hint))

5) Slide my weight / hips to my front leg and turned toward the target way too soon for me,

6) Kept my right arm from rotating over my left after impact

7) Elbows flying back and forth

8) had a very tight, weak-to-neutral grip

Found some drills that addressed these issues, did them all VERY SLOWLY at first, and now my latest problem is having too many swing thoughts.


I'm not really in a position to offer any advice, (of course I will), but have you considered take-away drills? Something along these lines

http://thegolfdrillguru.netfirms.com/nfblog/?p=410


Might help.

Cheers.


*Pusher: American slang for a person who sells illegal drugs. Just in case that one slipped by.

[mariner]

Re: Why I push the ball ?

The ball flight always tells you what you've done - a push is the result of an in-to-out swing with an open clubface (but square to the line of the swing) resulting in a straight shot to the right.
It's probably caused by "blocking" the release of the hands through impact.

[ThePuttKing65]

Re: Why I push the ball ?

What do you get with a correct in to in swing with a open clubface ?

A push slice ? - The ball starts right and goes further right ?

[jambalaya]

Re: Why I push the ball ?

What do your hands look like at the top of your backswing? Is the clubface open at that point? Is your left wrist flat? Do you have a weak or strong grip?

[BrianW]

Re: Why I push the ball ?

I suffered from pushing the ball, it was caused by blocking the arms with the right hip such that they could not release properly. This normally happens where the right hip (and buttock) is allowed to rotate out in the downswing rather than staying back while the left hip rotates anticlockwise.

[mariner]

Re: Why I push the ball ?

What do you get with a correct in to in swing with a open clubface ?

A push slice ? - The ball starts right and goes further right ?

Yes, if the clubface is open in relation to the swing path then clockwise spin is imparted and the ball will curve to the right. If the swing was in to out it will start right and curve right.
The general rule is that the swing path governs the initial direction of the ball and the relative open/closed position of the clubface influences the curve of the ball as it loses forward momentum.
The ideal is supposed to be a slight in to out swing path with a clubface slightly closed to the line of that swing path producing a shot that starts slightly right and draws back to the centre (which is why when you see a pro hit a shot from behind on TV, it always looks at first as if he's missed to the right)
If you've got a slight in to out swing path, that's great as it's highly desirable and very difficult to learn if your natural inclination is to swing out to in (like the vast majority of golfers) you just have to sort your hands out so they square the clubface through impact.
The first thing to try would be to strengthen the grip, (but I guess people would have told you this and you'll know it doesn't mean grip it harder in any way) by showing more knuckles from your left hand if you are right handed - this should naturally bring the clubface back to the ball in a more closed position.

[ThePuttKing65]

Re: Why I push the ball ?

I've been working on my game non stop in the last few weeks. Every hour I'm not asleep or at work, I've been practising.

I've worked on grip, allignment, posture, shoulder turn.

Nothing stopped me from hitting these god awfull shots to the right. Even if I started the round hitting the ball well, I soon started pushing the ball.

What I've done is to go to a 10 finger grip. No overlapping of the little finger. I've just hit 150 balls at the range. I'm very impressed. More shots to the left than right. Driving was brilliant !

I don't seem to be twisting the club open anymore. I don't know why this is working. Maybe my hands are too small but I have always used an overlapping grip in the past. With a square clubface throughout the swing I should improve !

[jbrunk]

Re: Why I push the ball ?

Yes, if the clubface is open in relation to the swing path then clockwise spin is imparted and the ball will curve to the right. If the swing was in to out it will start right and curve right.
The general rule is that the swing path governs the initial direction of the ball and the relative open/closed position of the clubface influences the curve of the ball as it loses forward momentum.
The ideal is supposed to be a slight in to out swing path with a clubface slightly closed to the line of that swing path producing a shot that starts slightly right and draws back to the centre (which is why when you see a pro hit a shot from behind on TV, it always looks at first as if he's missed to the right)
If you've got a slight in to out swing path, that's great as it's highly desirable and very difficult to learn if your natural inclination is to swing out to in (like the vast majority of golfers) you just have to sort your hands out so they square the clubface through impact.
The first thing to try would be to strengthen the grip, (but I guess people would have told you this and you'll know it doesn't mean grip it harder in any way) by showing more knuckles from your left hand if you are right handed - this should naturally bring the clubface back to the ball in a more closed position.

Respectfully, I have to disagree. The swing is an arc. A straight shot is produced by an in to in swing path with a slightly open clubface at impact and sqaure at separation. You would only get a slight fade with this path with a face that was more than "slightly" open.

[bill reed]

Re: Why I push the ball ?

hi jbrunk
i have a in to out swing and i come into the ball with an open club face and still have an open club face after the balls well on its way and i have a very controllably fade using this system of contact with the ball.
you don't have to come into the ball open and then close the face to square or to closed to hit a fade.
i know i can hit my drives about 260 yards including roll and thats using the system of keeping the face open all through the impact zone and after.
i use to play a draw where i would roll the wrists to get the club face to come in open to square and then to closed at impact to hit a draw and i did his about 10 yards longer but without any control of the ball. but the way i now play a fade is very controllably and you can easily adjust just how much you want the ball to turn in the air, its east to his a big 20 yard fade or a 10 foot fade at will.
i think with the system of coming in open to square you don't get the same control over the flight of the ball.
with my open stance and my in to out swing i have to push the ball, that means my hand are moving away from the body as i come into impact and after and not swing back around that keeps the face open and gives my the control of the ball.
with the Lee Trevino system i use the club face looks down the target line longer and that gives you control.
it is a push shot but it and in to out push shot.
cheers
bill

[jambalaya]

Re: Why I push the ball ?

I've been working on my game non stop in the last few weeks. Every hour I'm not asleep or at work, I've been practising.

I've worked on grip, allignment, posture, shoulder turn.

Nothing stopped me from hitting these god awfull shots to the right. Even if I started the round hitting the ball well, I soon started pushing the ball.

What I've done is to go to a 10 finger grip. No overlapping of the little finger. I've just hit 150 balls at the range. I'm very impressed. More shots to the left than right. Driving was brilliant !

I don't seem to be twisting the club open anymore. I don't know why this is working. Maybe my hands are too small but I have always used an overlapping grip in the past. With a square clubface throughout the swing I should improve !

I really don't think a clubface square to the swing path throughout the swing is necessarily a good goal. Some people use this method and call it a "natural" swing, "square-to-square" or something. I don't know all the priciples behind that swing but keeping the clubface square may not be all there is to it.

What do you mean when you say twisting your wrists or twisting your hand? Do you mean that your hand actually twists around the club or slips on the club? Most people do not keep the clubface square to the swing path the entire way. I know I do not. In order to keep the club shaft on plane and your right arm folded properly I find if necessary to let the forearms roll over to a position where my left wrist is flat and parallel to the swing path. So my question is whether you have a flat left wrist at the top of your backswing. If not, that could be more your problem.

[BrianW]

Re: Why I push the ball ?

I've been working on my game non stop in the last few weeks. Every hour I'm not asleep or at work, I've been practising.

I've worked on grip, allignment, posture, shoulder turn.

Nothing stopped me from hitting these god awfull shots to the right. Even if I started the round hitting the ball well, I soon started pushing the ball.

What I've done is to go to a 10 finger grip. No overlapping of the little finger. I've just hit 150 balls at the range. I'm very impressed. More shots to the left than right. Driving was brilliant !

I don't seem to be twisting the club open anymore. I don't know why this is working. Maybe my hands are too small but I have always used an overlapping grip in the past. With a square clubface throughout the swing I should improve !

A baseball grip promotes easier rotation of the wrists through impact. If you exaggerate this by gripping the club like a hockey stick with the trail hand low down on the shaft you will see how easy it becomes to rotate the clubface from open to closed as you rotate it through impact. This grip can promote hooks with some people but can be a help if you have problems closing the club face.

[ThePuttKing65]

Re: Why I push the ball ?

I've played 2 rounds using the 10 finger grip and I'm very encouraged !

Scores of 76 and 78.

Both days it was very windy so it was hard to really judge how well I hit the ball but the signs were good. No pushes, most off line shots went left.

I try to keep a square clubface throughout the swing. I think this grip will help me do that !

What I used to do was twist the clubface open on the takeaway. But there was never any rotation to get the clubface back square so I always hit the ball with an open clubface.

[jambalaya]

Re: Why I push the ball ?

I've played 2 rounds using the 10 finger grip and I'm very encouraged !

Scores of 76 and 78.

Both days it was very windy so it was hard to really judge how well I hit the ball but the signs were good. No pushes, most off line shots went left.

I try to keep a square clubface throughout the swing. I think this grip will help me do that !

What I used to do was twist the clubface open on the takeaway. But there was never any rotation to get the clubface back square so I always hit the ball with an open clubface.

Well if you are shooting 76 and 78 I should probably stop making suggestions and start squaring up my clubface.

[ThePuttKing65]

Re: Why I push the ball ?

My handicap is 6.

But sometimes I wonder how especially when I start pushing the ball. I do have a good short game and I rarely hit a total mis hit shot.