Has iron technology improved THAT much?

[Kooga61]

Hi,

I went along to my local driving range this week. As mentioned before my iron play is awful. I got talking to the club fitter and asked him if, as my shaft speed isn't that fast, and I have stiff shafts, whether it would be worth having regular shafts fitted to my irons. He said, as with the new drivers (460cc's) the head is far more important than the shaft. He showed me a new set of Adam's irons. Now I bought my iron's 10 years ago, and at that time the land area at the bottom of the club were pretty wide. The set he showed me were at least 1.5 times wider if not more! They looked a cross between a rescue wood and a iron, but hollowed out at the back. The set were $900NZ, with steel shafts.

Interesting, as my wood play off the deck is usually quite good. Now I have witnessed the difference in my driving with new technology, will the new irons have a simular result? Is it worth investing in them?

[cyc53870]

Re: Has iron technology improved THAT much?

I do not think irons have improved as much as the latest oversized drivers. But try custom-fitting since after all, it's more than reasonable to replace ten year old clubs. There are also many slightly used irons reasonably priced out there. Try some of the hybrids, too. But always remember it's the Injun and not the arrow that makes the difference...

[GoNavy]

Re: Has iron technology improved THAT much?

Actually that is a two part question. If your swing is not grooved and you continually miss the the center of the face, then yes, new heads will help, the perimeter weighting will offset some of the miss hits. Regardless the shaft will ALWAYS make a bigger difference as well fitting. If the club doesn't sole correctly, and flex correctly for your swing, life becomes much more difficult. So if you make pretty much solid contact, heads make very little difference, at that point it all shaft, flex, length, and torque. You have to do a fitting to find the right combo.

[Sumosid]

Re: Has iron technology improved THAT much?

Answer in short---Iron technology has not improved all that much since the PING eye2.

What has improved with iron tech is the introduction of the hi-bred club. Adam golf also make a set which uses hi-bred clubs for the longer harder to hit irons.

I bought a new full set of irons and I am slowly replacing the long irons with hi-bred clubs.

I would make a bet that the Adam clubs will improve your game.

[bill reed]

Re: Has iron technology improved THAT much?

hi
i think what Sumosid said it right and i think since the ping eye 2s the biggest difference has not been so much in the heads but in the shafts.
head have become more forgiving but shaft can now shape your flight more than the head can and finding the right shaft it as important as the right head.
cheers
bill

[LowPost42]

Re: Has iron technology improved THAT much?

I love this argument, shaft vs head.

I always take the head side of the equation, and this is why. Take your favourite head. The one you've hit the best, ever. No matter what shaft I put in there, you'll find a way to hit it decently.

Now, take your favourite shaft ever - the one that felt the best or gave you the best trajectory or whatever. I can guarantee you I can put heads on the end of it that you flat out wouldn't be able to hit.

Kooga, it sounds like you were being shown either the Tech OS or the Boxer set. The 3 and 4 are fairway wood-looking hybrids, the 5 and 6 are iron-type hybrids (look like irons with some meat on the back) and the 7-P are wider soled irons. Total GI.

The hybrids get the ball up faster and provide more spin and (blanket statement time) for anyone who doesn't swing a driver faster than 115 MPH, hybrids are your choice.

By and large, shaft tip stiffness and bend or kick point won't make a lick of difference unless you release the club mid-late to late. If you release early to mid, the shaft tip is all done bending before impact - your shaft will look straight at impact.

The role that shafts DO play is in feel and weight. Since all iron heads more or less weigh the same (for example, a 5 iron head is around 254g, give or take 3g), it's the shaft choice that changes swingweight (aka head feel).

In fact, I'm of the opinion that more folks should be using heavy, stiff shafts in your irons, especially to start. It forces you to learn to use your body to swing, and you can't easily manipulate the club with your arms. The driver is a totally different beast as most folks are looking to maximize distance with it.

But, if your irons are 10 years old, going with a set of Adams Tech OS will blow your mind. Believe it or not, it's an older technology (Wishon pioneered it with the 770CFE), but is the most forgiving in the world of irons today - the high COR iron.

Truth be told, I've moved myself into a set of 770's. Sure, the topline is a little thicker. Sure, the sole is wider and there's more offset. Sure, the sound of impact is thwacky, not thuddy. But when I toe one (and it seems to be more often than not these days), only losing 1% of my yardage doesn't hurt so bad. Instead of a 135 carry, I get 133. Awwwwwwwww.

There's some serious tech out there past the Eye2's. A high COR hybrid is about the top of the list (Wishon also first with those with the 785's. I play 2 of them and love them both).

[Golfbald]

Re: Has iron technology improved THAT much?

Lowpost,

I guess I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I have a demo bag with different shafts and heads. I can take my favorite shaft and put any head from a blade to cavity to perimeter and as long as the head weight is the same I hit them all the same.

I always have a hard time finding the right shaft. I just got new Nike blades, the total weight was significantly higher than my Hogans. Plus regular in the Hogans and stiffs in the Nikes. I took them apart to make sure they assembled them right. After the usual adjustments, head weights to have a uniform weight between clubs. I am still getting used to them. I put one of the Hogan shafts in the Nike to see if that was the difference. I hit it 100 times better with the Hogan shaft.

A friend wanted me to try his Hogan with an ultra lite steel shaft, I had to slow my swing to get it to work. He had a difficult time getting any distance from my club, but hits his ultra lite shafts fine.

I always go for the right shaft. I can wait to try a set of Nippon 1050GH shafts. Suppose to be pretty good.

Some good choices, Ashton makes an awesome hybrid that the hosel can be adjusted to the rest of the set of irons. Best I've ever hit. A true temper release shaft works perfect in that club with about 4-6 grams extra weight. Great stuff!!! BTW the 3 wood is a killer also. Wishon makes some fantastic heads. 770's are awesome. A Callaway wide bottom might not be a bad choice either if you are looking more mainstream.

GB

[LowPost42]

Re: Has iron technology improved THAT much?

Please, please don't misunderstand me, ladies and gents.

I'm not saying that shafts are worthless, that any piece of steel or graphite will do - far from it. I'm saying that you need to find a head that will work first, then find a shaft that complements it. If you play in lush conditions, butter-knife blades are not your friend. If you play in dry, firm conditions, wide sole irons are a wide open invitation to the Bladies - you know, the award show where the longest bladed shot wins. In drivers it gets even better... for the majority, I'll stick you in some 4° true to spec head and giggle. For the higher swing speed players, I'll put you in a 16°, 2° closed head and watch you hit 220 yard ballooners. :O

But as GB points out, once you have a head that works, you need to find a complementary shaft. But his line "I had to slow my swing to get it to work" proves my point - wrong shaft, still got decent results. Not best, not optimal, but playable.

[Golfbald]

Re: Has iron technology improved THAT much?

Ah yes Low post,

That is the Holy Grail of golf, finding a swing is one thing but more important is finding the right clubs.

Arrow or bows makes the Indian a better hunter. If the bow (swing) is weak the hunter must get closer to his prey to be accurate. If the Arrow is off (Club) the stronger the bow the more inaccurate the hunter is. Even at close range he could miss his target.

One compliments the other.

GB

[Kooga61]

Re: Has iron technology improved THAT much?

Wow....sorry guys way over my head!

I've been away for quite some time, but thanks anyway for the advice. I think I'll work on my ball striking first, and come back to this when I can afford a new set.

[rotator]

Re: Has iron technology improved THAT much?

For what it means, as this is an old thread which may have become redundant, I'll throw in my 2 cents. The question was, have iron technology changed that much.

I'm with LowPost42.

Irons have changed a lot. I have myself originally played with blades, which were all that was available then, and they were not forgiving. I then played many varieties of semi cavity clubs, then Ping Eye 2, Ping Zings, then Callaway GGB tungsten titanium. You could see the technology change to more forgiving designs, with elements such as perimeter weighting, extreme cavity, undercut cavity, lower and backward placed SG, wider soles etc in the corresponding clubs of many of the manufacturers.

Look at clubs now like the TaylorMade R7, Callaway X Series, which even the pros play. For recreational golfers, there are the more extreme renditions, such as Taylor Made R7 CGB, Callaway Fusion (which I presently play with) and so on, with even more extreme forgiving elements.

I have occasionally pulled out my older clubs, such as the Ping Zing set, and I could hit them OK, so one might argue that the improvement may not be that much then, PROVIDED you have a decent swing. That may be true, but ask Sergio, if he would prefer to change out his R7's for the 200 irons. In my case, the improvement benefits delta are greater than for Sergio.

Oh, it's fair to agree with Bill Reed about the shafts too. My Ping Zings have 120 gm shafts, which by comparison to the new technology lightweight shafts, is like swinging a rebar.

LowPost42 brings up the Adams example of the hybrids. I have a Adams 5 hybrid Boxster, and I hit that higher, much farther and with accuracy than I could ever hit my regular 5 iron. I also have a Cobra baffler 4 hybrid, I would not trade out. That is improvement.

Ted

[Kooga61]

Re: Has iron technology improved THAT much?

it only took you 7 months to repy, I hope it didn't take that long to read/understand.

Not quite! I like to take my time on things....but not to that extreme. No wife lost her job, and as money was tight I had to abandon the golf for most of the year. I couldn't bare even talking about it on here. But things are looking slightly better now, so it's back to golf and on with the show.

[rotator]

Re: Has iron technology improved THAT much?

That's great to hear that things have turned to be better.

I could see that when money is tight and you have to let go on golf, it would break your heart to be on this forum.

Good fortune,

Ted