One-Plane Posture Question

[ReefBoy]

Re: One-Plane Posture Question

Yeah, thought about this apect too. Do I need to get my lie angle changed on my clubs now?

You can if you want to but if the arms hang vertically then the lie angle of the club should be about right. This is one of the reasons why there are very few pure plane swingers out there because everyones anatomy is different. As a result the arms should be as vertical as you can get maintaining the lie angle. If this distorts the setup position too much then it might be worth looking at a different lie angle to standard. Something you should discuss with your club fitter.

Hope that helps.

Christopher

[BrianW]

Re: One-Plane Posture Question

I guess we're talking about two different models here.

I prefer to look at Hogan, whereas the photo above is modelled on Norman, a swing I know almost nothing about.

To me the shaft still doesn't look perpendicular to the spine though. The guy in the photo needs to bend over more for 90 degrees of difference. And although one plane, it's a high plane in comparison the Hogans. Which is why I prefer to use low and high plane rather than the traditional sense of one or two planes. I guess Normans was the only true one plane swing.

This picture is a bit messy but is a better model of the way the shaft is square to the spine angle.




And here is my swing model Jeff Ritter making a perfect one plane swing.

[ReefBoy]

Re: One-Plane Posture Question

Great pic Brian, that is exactly what I was trying to describe. Picture tells a thousand words.

Christopher

[Neil18]

Re: One-Plane Posture Question

This picture is a bit messy but is a better model of the way the shaft is square to the spine angle.




And here is my swing model Jeff Ritter making a perfect one plane swing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1NfP...eature=related

Hey Bri,

This may be for another thread entirely, but what would you say are the essential components of a "perfect" one plane swing?

[bill reed]

Re: One-Plane Posture Question

hi
does anyone agree that the one plane swing seems to suit the open stance and fader of the ball more than using the two plane swing for setting up for a fade.
i am still not sure if a two plane swing suits a draw more than the one plane swing but looking at more pro players that draw the ball most have a two plane swing where the pro faders of the ball seem to have a one plane swing.
again i said most and not all
cheers
bill

[BrianW]

Re: One-Plane Posture Question

Hey Bri,

This may be for another thread entirely, but what would you say are the essential components of a "perfect" one plane swing?

Hmmmm! The swing has to be rotary by nature, the impact plane should be setup at address and although the arms will rise a little they should stay parallel to the address plane. The arms need to rotate around the spine and be lead by the rotation of the torso. The lower body should be quiet, reactive and supportive of the upper body's swing. Another important component is the way one arm extends and the other folds back both in the back swing and follow through.

Jeff Ritter has a great set of videos on Youtube and his own site that explain the process.

Look at these two videos of his swing, so simple but effective. Poetry in motion.

[jambalaya]

Re: One-Plane Posture Question

I went out to the range at lunch to work on this posture-address issue. I really tried to stick the butt out more in the back and bend over. Might of bent over too much. I struggled with how to let the arms hang. Should I push the club out away from my body a bit. It is still a work in progress. Had mixed results. I think it was mainly to do with arm-body sync. When I let my shoulder control the back pivot more I seemed to hit more solid shots. Hit a lot of what seemed to be shallow shots. What I mean is I swept the ball off the ground rather than took a divot. Almost thinned a couple.

[AvidGolfer]

Re: One-Plane Posture Question

From what i have read, a one-plane swing should be done with a more bent over posture than a two-plane. How far should one bend? What are the consequences of a too upright posture with a one plane swing?

I've away thought that Jim Hardy's emphasis on bending over more for a one plane swing has been over exagerated (for example the pictures illistrated in his book The Plane Truth for Golfers). The only pro I've seen bending over excessively is Kevin Sutherland (and I don't consider him a very good pro). Below I have included a swing sequence of a one plane swinger: Ernie Els (who Hardy called a "pure" one planer in his book), and a two plane swinger: Sophie Gustafson. When you look at one plane swingers (like Els, Elkington, and Faldo) the back of the shoulder is in line with the knee cap, and the balls of the foot in a down the line view. Its not that different from the posture of two plane swingers (and it often looks like two plane swingers have more tilt toward the ball putting weight toward the toes and seperating their shoulders from the balls of feet to knee cap line).

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/547...riverdlbt5.jpg

[ReefBoy]

Re: One-Plane Posture Question

I went out to the range at lunch to work on this posture-address issue. I really tried to stick the butt out more in the back and bend over. Might of bent over too much. I struggled with how to let the arms hang. Should I push the club out away from my body a bit. It is still a work in progress. Had mixed results. I think it was mainly to do with arm-body sync. When I let my shoulder control the back pivot more I seemed to hit more solid shots. Hit a lot of what seemed to be shallow shots. What I mean is I swept the ball off the ground rather than took a divot. Almost thinned a couple.

Keep at it, but don't worry about what happens with the shot you're hitting at the moment. It is just like going back to the beginning. Once you have the setup and motion you need that is almost automatic(and it won't take long to get it if you practice) then focus on lifting the angle of attack a little and the bottom of the swing landing in front of the ball. This will decrease the sweeping motion and change it to more clean impact on the ball.

Christopher

[jambalaya]

Re: One-Plane Posture Question

I've away thought that Jim Hardy's emphasis on bending over more for a one plane swing has been over exagerated (for example the pictures illistrated in his book The Plane Truth for Golfers). The only pro I've seen bending over excessively is Kevin Sutherland (and I don't consider him a very good pro). Below I have included a swing sequence of a one plane swinger: Ernie Els (who Hardy called a "pure" one planer in his book), and a two plane swinger: Sophie Gustafson. When you look at one plane swingers (like Els, Elkington, and Faldo) the back of the shoulder is in line with the knee cap, and the balls of the foot in a down the line view. Its not that different from the posture of two plane swingers (and it often looks like two plane swingers have more tilt toward the ball putting weight toward the toes and seperating their shoulders from the balls of feet to knee cap line).

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/547...riverdlbt5.jpg

Pretty amazing. There is virtually no difference in the posture for those two swings. In fact, Sophie may be bent over more from the hips. It seems to be all about how you lift your arms or don't lift your arms. Dramatic difference there. Sophie seems to have turned her hips more. Sophie gets that club back on plane in a hurry on the downswing. Other observations: Ernies hands are Lower? Both keep the club shaft above the address plane? (I am pretty sure I am not doing this. My clubhead and shaft are gettiing inside that line on takeaway.) Ernie of course starts back more inside? Big difference in right elbow position on the down swing? Her hips are turning much faster?

The whole thing kind of blows up some of my current thoughts on posture and bringing the club back. About the only thing I am coming away with is that I am getting the club too far inside and therefore having to throw my right side out instead of under to get back on the downswing. I think I am kinda just letting the club just fall to the inside on the backswing. It's like I need to hold or support the club better to prevent it.

[jambalaya]

Re: One-Plane Posture Question

OK, now this thread is turning into a diary. Went out the range again because I was totally unsatisfied with my last session. Screw the bent over posture idea, at least one as signficant as before. Just stick the butt out slightly more and get in a comfortable position. My other thought, hold the shaft off from going inside so much. I start hitting the 7 iron and make solid contact. The main problem at first though is that I am pulling the ball a bit. Some straighter shots but too many pulls, solid hits though. Then I start hitting 2 inches behind the ball every third or fourth shot. One beautiful solid shot then two shots later: THUNK!

Went to the driver and hitting solid but spraying it a bit. Then I thought tee it up a bit lower and stop getting cheated on your shoulder turn. So I make sure I get a full shoulder turn and everything seems to straighten out. Solid and straight for the most part. Now go back to the 7 iron.

Same concept, still holding the club off from going inside too much but also make that good shoulder turn. I am hitting some good shots when suddenly THUNK! I hit behind the ball three or four times in a row. Cursing, slamming club, throwing club. I try another swing and noticed that my left knee was flopping to the rear on the backswing. So I solidify my base and keep enough tension on my front knee to keep if from turning in. I get a full shoulder turn like before and wham, I hit a good solid shot. Did about six solid shots in a row and no pulling the ball. So I think before I am doing a false shoulder turn by collapsing the left knee and putting a little reverse pivot in the swing. This moved the low point of my swing back and therefore the chunked shots.

So this posture thing is not nearly as important as I thought. I put way too much emphasis on it. Just get a comfortable posture and put the left arm parallel and on that shoulder plane in the backswing. I am going to work more on soldifying my base and getting a full shoulder turn.