Distance Question

[ubizmo]

Re: Distance Question

hi Todd
think you might be mixing up a catapult up with a Terbuchet. a Turbuchet does not have a stop beam and the weight swings like a playground swing and that just swing the arm back and fro, there is no stop as the force of using a stop beam would break up the arm of the Teubuchet.
when a Teubuchet is fired the hangmans noose slips of the end and fires the rock away at a greater force than a catapult could and it's down to the sling effect and the arm swings forward till the weight on the end starts to swing back again. the weight is just a big box filled with rocks and its free to swing on the short end of the arm.
the Terbuchet is just a slingshot on a long arm.
a Catapult does use a stop beam and has an arm like a big spoon Greeks use to use it with fire. often called Greek fire.
cheers
bill

Yep I probably have the details wrong, but the key is the sling effect, as you've said. In fact, the sling is a very good example of this because the braking action of the arm is noticeable. And as in the golf swing, to be accurate with a sling requires good timing. It's not by accident that one of the oldest swing drills is to practice using a length of heavy rope instead of a club. The feeling of whipping the rope through the impact zone is what is wanted, and that also involves the transfer of angular momentum from the arms to the rope.

[rotator]

Re: Distance Question

Here's what Ochoa says in an interview.

Q. You are leading the driving distance on the Tour, and at the Kraft you just kind of demolished everyone; I think you led by 20 yards. What are you doing both in the gym and on the driving range that's getting you so much more distance off the tee?
LORENA OCHOA: Well, in the off-season I work out a lot. I lift a little more weights. I changed my ball, and I am improving my golf swing. I have better position at the top of my backswing, and that helps me to have better angles and to create more speed when I hit the ball so I have maybe five, seven yards of increase in distance with my driver. I like to see that. It really helps to make the golf courses a little bit shorter and give myself more birdie opportunities, so I'm going to continue that.

[cyc53870]

Re: Distance Question

It has to be technique. But what specific technique? Something to do with timing and physics no doubt. Can it be readily taught and learned? Apparently not. I am angry. Why is this technique such a big hidden secret in golf? Perhaps the technique can not be learned? Is it only for a talented few?

[BrianW]

Re: Distance Question

I have tried to explain how to get more distance by speeding the clubface through impact by slowing the hands and whipping the club through, if you work on this it will increase clubhead speed. You then have to concentrate the force of the clubface into the core of the ball by striking it out of the sweetspot at the optimum angle for the particular club. It is not a black art.

[jambalaya]

Re: Distance Question

I have tried to explain how to get more distance by speeding the clubface through impact by slowing the hands and whipping the club through, if you work on this it will increase clubhead speed. You then have to concentrate the force of the clubface into the core of the ball by striking it out of the sweetspot at the optimum angle for the particular club. It is not a black art.

Just how do we slow the hands?

[bill reed]

Re: Distance Question

hi Brian
not sure i buy that. if your hands and club keep moving through the impact zone then you can lose about 20% speed of the club head, if you were to slow the hand then i would think you would lose even more speed as you make contact.
the top pros lose about 8 to 10% at impact. handicap players lose as much as 20%, the amount you lose has a bearing on how much you compress the ball.
with players like Hogan they did not reach there impact zone till about 2 to 3 inches in front of the ball and thats one of the ways they got so much distance, it was all about ball compression.
the club head lagged the hands till after the ball was hit and only then did the club start to pass the hands. if you were to slow the hands the club head was catch up with the hands and could cost you ball compression.
maybe i have picked up you meaning the wrong way and i'm thinking of it in the wrong way.
cheers
bill

[BrianW]

Re: Distance Question

I have shown the principal in one of my articles, it explains the theory, shows the pictures and there is a great video there that explains exactly what to do.

http://www.golf-tuition-online.com/c...ath-111-a.html

It is the same principal used in cracking a whip or throwing a javelin. After inertia is started from the core and arms the whipping through of the clubhead by stopping or decreasing the arc of the hands is what generates great speed. If you allow your hands to travel a similar speed to the clubhead and attempt to swing them down the line then you will leak potential power and that's what most golfers do.

[rotator]

Re: Distance Question

There is a common denominator re distance, with reference to an earlier post re Lorena Ochoa's interview, if you watched the WGC this past weekend, the commentators were talking about the crazy long distance Westwood picked up this year, attributed to his intensified physical workouts. This is also what Ochoa said helped her. There are many examples of players who have followed this prescription, and Tiger is among them, if not the trailblazer.

There is natural talent and learned techniques, of course. But, it's clear that extreme hard work, such as a VJ, Appleby, Tiger, recently Mickleson, Weir, etc. regimen, is a major factor. Many golfers, even some pros, do not have the motivation to dedicate themselves. With recreational golfers, it's not their career and they have other responsibilities. I now find it easier to look for the magic bullet.

One winter, I worked out several times a day on swing positions, and with isometrics and stretches to strengthen and lengthen my swing. I took many hundreds of swings off a mat. I never gave much thought about it. I played my first game, with my usual partner, who was a low single digit golfer and hit my tee shot. So we walked up the fairway, to the first ball, which was out there, and we both assumed was mine. He was amazed when we found out it was his. Mine was at least 20 yards ahead. This was not an one-of incident. I played well for a good part of the year, until I lost it to back off to normal. This just goes to show.

[bill reed]

Re: Distance Question

hi Brian
i go back to your Teubuchet and it was the long distance rock tosser and the catapult was no where as long and the catapult had a stop beam bit the Teubuchet did not.
the only slowing i could see was then the ball was impacted with and that was only a loss of about 20% with handicap players and with the likes of tiger a loss of about 5%.
if your club speed is say 120 into the ball with a driver and you hands dont slow then why would you hit any less than if your hand did slow and with then travling so fast how do you control then to slow at impact. if a second before then you will flip the ball and is a second late you will have the hand still moving.
sorry Brian i just don't see that at all.
when you say hands do you mean wrist movement too as the wrists do help bring the club into the ball faster but i still don't see them slowing.
cheers
bill

[BrianW]

Re: Distance Question

hi Brian
i go back to your Teubuchet and it was the long distance rock tosser and the catapult was no where as long and the catapult had a stop beam bit the Teubuchet did not.
the only slowing i could see was then the ball was impacted with and that was only a loss of about 20% with handicap players and with the likes of tiger a loss of about 5%.
if your club speed is say 120 into the ball with a driver and you hands don't slow then why would you hit any less than if your hand did slow and with then trailing so fast how do you control then to slow at impact. if a second before then you will flip the ball and is a second late you will have the hand still moving.
sorry Brian i just don't see that at all.
when you say hands do you mean wrist movement too as the wrists do help bring the club into the ball faster but i still don't see them slowing.
cheers
bill

Bill,

I am not talking trebuchet or tossing rocks in my article, that was a more abstract discussion although the trebuchet arm does slow and stop as the secondary lever released. Please listen to what my post is saying, the club can be whipped through like cracking a whip with the right technique. When the initial inertia is created from the core to the arms the clubhead is not travelling anything like 120 MPH, it is not possible to create that kind of speed by allowing the hands to swing through a wide arc. The hands must slow and the wrists whip the club through. Jeff Ritter shows how to do it with his pane of glass behind his lead elbow image.

Read the thread, see the pictures, watch the video, try it yourself. It works for me, it works for Jeff, if it doesn't work for you then sorry for wasting your time. I am trying to answer questions on how golfers can create extra distance but if people do not actually read the article and watch the video then I guess I am wasting my time.

[89imf]

Re: Distance Question

I got a question that needs answering or I might go nuts thinking about it...

How come Lorena Ochoa, height 5'6" and 127 lbs. can hit the ball 290 yards?

It must mean proper technique, eh?

She tells you how here: http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio...8/photos_ochoa

[bill reed]

Re: Distance Question

hi Brian
i did read the three of your posts and very good they were too. i also watched the video and looked at the picture! but i still don't see it the same way you do. its maybe we play with such different systems that i may look at things different to you and that why i don't see it the same way.
its like, is the glass half full or half empty, there is always someone who sees it differently and it seems this week its me.
cheers
bill

[cyc53870]

Re: Distance Question

Slow down the hands! Speed them up says another... Whip thru it says one... But don't flip the hands (this I agree with)... Is there time for any of this in the split-second it takes to complete the downswing?

Even in golf magazines you get conflicting advice on distance... Tee it up high says one... tee it low says the other... A narrower stance... a wider stance, etc... On and on...

Golf remains confusing as ever.

[BrianW]

Re: Distance Question

In my article on speed I explained the principal of spinning a weight on a piece of string, if you reduce the circle you make with the end of the string in your hand the weight at the end will travel faster, if you widen the inner circle the weight will slow down. Is that clear?

If you watch the video I attached from Geoff Ritter you will see his explanation of how a wider circle with the hands moving down the line through impact will slow the clubface. How narrowing the circle of the hands and whipping the club through impact by retracting the left elbow into an imaginary plane of glass will create additional power. Is that clear?

I showed two pictures that show how the club should rotate slower with a wide arc at the top of the downswing to prevent casting, progressively speed up then as inertia is generated whip the club through impact by transferring momentum from the wrists to the club. Was that clear?

If it was then all you need to do from here is try it on the range. It works for me, it works for others, it should hopefully work for you.

[cyc53870]

Re: Distance Question

Ok I will try that at the driving range. Thanks, much appreciated.