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  • Stack & Tilt DVDs

    My birthday wasn't long ago, and one of my gifts was the Stack & Tilt instructional DVD set (4 DVDs).

    I started doing something like what I thought was the Stack & Tilt some months back, and it had done more for my ball striking than anything else I'd ever tried. But I got to it by trial and error, so I was curious to see if the DVDs had any important things that I might have overlooked.

    Suffice it to say that I think that the Stack & Tilt golf swing, while not really "new" and revolutionary, is something that a lot of golfers will find a lot of value in.

    The DVDs are pretty awful. They convey the S&T information, yes, but in a way that is almost painful to watch. They are tedious and repetitious. There are long stretches of nothing but Mike Bennett standing in various positions while Andy Plummer walks around, points to various things, and lectures. In four DVDs there are hardly any shots of actual full swings of golf balls being struck. It's hard to believe, but true. Mike Bennett mights as well be a golf mannequin, the way he's used in these videos. Moreover, if you took out the repetition, all of the material would fit onto one DVD, or at most two. And despite there being four DVDs, some important issues are not touched on. One of them is the difference between hitting with the irons and the driver.

    The S&T golf swing is all about the first two "skills" in the "three skills" golf instruction book (see the separate board in this forum). That is, it's all about hitting down into the ball and coming at it from the inside. In some ways, then, it's a perfect counterpart to the three skills (well, two out of three), since it supplies the geometry and mechanics that make the three skills possible. This will be of special value to those who, like myself, find that the three skills knowledge and drills aren't sufficient to make it happen. But if you need a lot of video demonstration of the swing, you'll be disappointed.

    Having said that, hitting down isn't what we want to do with the driver. This doesn't mean that the S&T swing can't be used with the driver; it can be. But it means that the ball position must be adjusted, more forward than many golfers are used to. This point, thought not mysterious, isn't discussed in the DVDs; it certainly should be.

    The fourth DVD, dealing with chipping, is pretty much exactly what Stan Utley teaches in his book, "The Art of the Short Game."

    To sum up: The information is good; the presentation isn't so good. The approach they take would actually be better suited to a book with lots of static diagrams and photos. The video medium is largely wasted. But until that book is published, I guess the videos are the best way to get the information, and golf geeks will appreciated the extremely analytical approach taken. Those who just want to get to the point, learn what it's all about, and then start working on it will just want to watch the first half of the first DVD.

  • #2
    Re: Stack & Tilt DVDs

    The one thing I did not agree with the stack and tilt stuff I have been reading is the advise to straighten the right leg during the backswing...

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    • #3
      Re: Stack & Tilt DVDs

      Originally posted by cyc53870 View Post
      The one thing I did not agree with the stack and tilt stuff I have been reading is the advise to straighten the right leg during the backswing...
      I find that my right leg straightens a bit--it can hardly do otherwise if I'm going to get a hip turn--but it's easy to overdo it, so I make no conscious effort to straighten it anymore than what feels natural. For me it's more important to maintain light contact between that right foot and the ground.

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      • #4
        Re: Stack & Tilt DVDs

        hi cyc
        i have been using a straitened right leg for about 6 months now in my Trevino swing, my leg is not locked at the knee and still has some flex in it.
        the reason i have the straitened right leg to to keep my weight central on the back swing (balanced) and also to stop any sliding of my hips on the back swing.
        on the down swing i do have some lateral slid and my weight moves over onto my left side and my right knee is still flexed.
        i think that the straight right leg is okay as long as you do not lock it at the knee on the back swing.
        if the leg is locked then i do agree with you.
        cheers
        bill

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        • #5
          Re: Stack & Tilt DVDs

          Originally posted by cyc53870 View Post
          The one thing I did not agree with the stack and tilt stuff I have been reading is the advise to straighten the right leg during the backswing...

          I think the right knee can straighten a bit in the BS. What you should be concerned with is how S&T gets novice golfers to reverse pivot.

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          • #6
            Re: Stack & Tilt DVDs

            Originally posted by jbrunk View Post
            I think the right knee can straighten a bit in the BS. What you should be concerned with is how S&T gets novice golfers to reverse pivot.
            That's a danger, if the swing is not properly understood. There *is* a slight tilt of the spine toward the target as the hips turn back; the angle of inclination toward the target line remains constant. A reverse pivot is what novice golfers do when they tilt toward the target *instead of* turning the hips back.

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            • #7
              Re: Stack & Tilt DVDs

              I to was very disappointed with the 4 disc set. I think they rushed to get something out with such a demand for information about the swing. As a three handicap that struggles to hit more than seven GIRS, I had a lot of initial success with the S&T swing but wanted more knowledge and understanding of the concept. What I have done to help me see the swing visually is, I took my digital video camera and took a video of the seventeen swings that they show on the 2nd disc directly off of my t.v. from the video itself, and I can now watch frame by frame or in slow motion and it has helped tremendously.

              While it is unfortunate that I had to do this to see the swing after spending $100.00 on the disc set, I can take my camera to the range and look at the various position of his arms, wrists and torso and evaluate where I'm at. I think that the value of instructional videos of golf swings would be greatly increased if the instructors would wear shorts instead of pants so that you can get a better idea of the leg action in the swing.

              I hope this helps!

              Best regards and good luck,

              D J B Z

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Stack & Tilt DVDs

                I had a go at this. Was working quite well with the irons, but I got really messed up with the driver.

                I thought the 2 dudes presenting the dvd were quite comical.

                Im now trying Jim McLeans 8 step swing.

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                • #9
                  Re: Stack & Tilt DVDs

                  Staying centered is a good swing thought but IMHO suggesting the average golfer tilts forward in the backswing is a recipe for disaster.

                  One of the biggest swing faults is the reverse pivot, most golfers need to stack and stay stacked!

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                  • #10
                    Re: Stack & Tilt DVDs

                    Originally posted by Spiffo View Post
                    I had a go at this. Was working quite well with the irons, but I got really messed up with the driver.

                    This seems to be the biggest 'comment' about S&T - driver stinks, irons are unbelievably awesome.

                    IIRC, the 'fix' for the driver is to stack very little.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Stack & Tilt DVDs

                      I forgot to mention that I only Stack & Tilt with 4 iron through wedges. I tried the driver at first, but quickly went back to the normal takeaway with weight shift to the right. I basically have two different swings!

                      I tried to post a video of the two, but the upload has to be such a small file that I was unable to do so.

                      Regards

                      D J B Z

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Stack & Tilt DVDs

                        Originally posted by D J B Z View Post
                        I forgot to mention that I only Stack & Tilt with 4 iron through wedges. I tried the driver at first, but quickly went back to the normal takeaway with weight shift to the right. I basically have two different swings!

                        I tried to post a video of the two, but the upload has to be such a small file that I was unable to do so.

                        Regards

                        D J B Z
                        Youtube, then link to it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Stack & Tilt DVDs

                          Originally posted by BrianW View Post
                          Staying centered is a good swing thought but IMHO suggesting the average golfer tilts forward in the backswing is a recipe for disaster.

                          One of the biggest swing faults is the reverse pivot, most golfers need to stack and stay stacked!

                          Good post. IMO, I don't think anyone outside of 7-8 hcap should be looking at this info. And only those that have no problem turning behind the ball at that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Stack & Tilt DVDs

                            I'm a 10.5 handicap and just won the most improved golfer award at my men's club 2008 coming down from a 16.4. The stack and tilt was an invaluable tool. I've only been playing golf 2.5 years but played a lot of ice hockey before hence good center of balance. The stack and tilt is mearly posting up on your left leg, left knee flexed, lower you right shoulder, strong grip, steeper backswing, quicker right elbow flex and wristcock, right foot in closed position, ball postion forward, no weight transfer back to the right leg, then a quick turn back to the left using LEFT LEG MUSCLES TO TURN THE LEFT HIP, then pull the trigger and rotate the shoulders as fast as you can in order to catch up to the hip turn. If done properly your weight should end up on the outside of your left foot. The concept here is to feel like your hitting into a wall on the left side of your left leg. Make sure your left hip doesn't go outside that wall. i agree that with the driver, there's not as much stack.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Stack & Tilt DVDs

                              I have stopped using the S&T swing. At first it worked great and I gave it 12 months. The no-weight transfer (back) started creeping into my hybrid-driver swing and really messed me up. I will still use it sometimes during a round where I really need to keep my body quiet and focus on hitting the ball very crisply out of say a fairway divot, pine straw or other bad lie situation.

                              S&T taught me to stay more centered over the ball with the short irons and as I have been working out with the 3lb 8 iron "heavy club" 4 times a week,(Try it at home, your clubs will feel like toys in your hands afterward!!) it has really increased my ability to keep my left arm perfectly straight at the top of the backswing. This has improved my ball striking. I am just very surprised that Aaron Baddley does not win more tournaments. I have studied his S&T swing in great detail and think that he has by far the most compact, powerful move of any of the S&T guys on tour.

                              Best regards,

                              D J B Z

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