A question about knees....

[vp27519]

Now for those who know me, I am both analytical and suffer from a lower back problem.

I am currently working very hard on a level left shoulder turn/pivot with my coach - maintaining height.

Just curious about the left knee on takeaway.

On 3rd November it was pointed out to me that my left knee dips downward and bends on the takeaway. I personally think that this is compensation for my back.

This day on the prac fairway I tried keeping the knees level on the takeaway.

It was an awkward move. I found there was no weight transfer and the tempo much quicker. There was very little upper body turn away from the target.

Doing this - I did not pull one ball to the left. All went straight to the target - nice draw. I have had the dreaded pulls from the tee, not, the shorter irons.


Cheers in advance

[LowPost42]

Re: A question about knees....

The knee can bend out over the toes, but it shouldn't be breaking in to the middle of the stance (I starred in a video about the left side breakdown).

[vp27519]

Re: A question about knees....

Thanks thus far. Interesting addition you have made LP.

Just to add something to the mix.

Why is it that my fairway woods hit from the deck go pretty well. I play the ball from the middle of my stance.

When tee'ing up lately I am pull hooking the ball. I play my driver from the inner left heel. Coach has given me an explanation for the duck hook, ie, lower body quitting at impact and the upper continuing through and finishing.

Why are there two different results? I don't want to lose length as this is why I am persisting with the driver.

I use a 9.5* driver and 13* and 18* woods.

[Neil18]

Re: A question about knees....

Now for those who know me, I am both analytical and suffer from a lower back problem.

I am currently working very hard on a level left shoulder turn/pivot with my coach - maintaining height.

Just curious about the left knee on takeaway.

On 3rd November it was pointed out to me that my left knee dips downward and bends on the takeaway. I personally think that this is compensation for my back.

This day on the prac fairway I tried keeping the knees level on the takeaway.

It was an awkward move. I found there was no weight transfer and the tempo much quicker. There was very little upper body turn away from the target.

Doing this - I did not pull one ball to the left. All went straight to the target - nice draw. I have had the dreaded pulls from the tee, not, the shorter irons.


Cheers in advance

I find that what my knees do depends on my hip turn. Turn the hips more level and the knee bends more forward than in. Turn your hips more inclined (i.e. popping your right hip up) then the left hip goes down = left knee bends forward, down and in.

[LowPost42]

Re: A question about knees....

Thanks thus far. Interesting addition you have made LP.

Just to add something to the mix.

Why is it that my fairway woods hit from the deck go pretty well. I play the ball from the middle of my stance.

When tee'ing up lately I am pull hooking the ball. I play my driver from the inner left heel. Coach has given me an explanation for the duck hook, ie, lower body quitting at impact and the upper continuing through and finishing.

Why are there two different results? I don't want to lose length as this is why I am persisting with the driver.

I use a 9.5* driver and 13* and 18* woods.

My experience says your coach may be right. When you stop rotating and start flinging your hands, you effectively 'hang back' and never get your weight back on your lead foot. Hold off the release and you block it. Release it early and you hook it - you need the 'perfect release' to save the shot. In my case, my driver stance had gotten too wide and I couldn't get onto my lead side to save my life.

[vp27519]

Re: A question about knees....

Neil, I understand your synopsis. If I have a level left shoulder turn on takeaway - my hips must turn level as well. Sounds like I am dipping again and losing height.

LP, the ol tennis shot of rolling the wrists over the ball at impact and the arm following through to get that great shot of the ball dipping suddenly. That is what coach has likened it to when the lower stops and the upper continues at impact. I note that this is only an issue when I get lame - I stop my lower body at impact to protect the back.

I like both your suggestions on the left knee. Thank you. Something to focus on when practicing.

Nickers x

[vp27519]

Re: A question about knees....

Been watching the golf on the ol pay tv and some of the lower markers at the club swing the club on the long game.

I have noticed a majority do what Neil has said, ie, a slight movement forward above the foot. No turn inward and no great flex.

[Scragger63]

Re: A question about knees....

Only thing Nickers, when talking hip and shoulder rotation, is to remember that because of the spine being tilted forward from the hips at address, the hips and shoulders will rotate on different planes, to different degrees....

The hips level or square to the ground (hopefully) and the shoulders on the plane of your swing...

If that visual makes any sense...

So when the hips turn square and if you are flexing your knees in your swing, the knees should flex in place over your feet with no lateral movement.

However, if you don't flex your knees, there is nowhere for them to go but laterally with your hips.

If that visual makes any sense.

I noticed this whilst I was caddying the other week. Whilst minding the flagstick, I would lay it across my shoulders, holding each end out as far as my arms allowed and just rotated my shoulders in attempting to point each end of the flag in turn at the point at where my ball would be if I was swinging a club.

If that visual makes any sense.

Was given this as a drill to loosen/strengthen the back and lateral muscles.

Cheers

[vp27519]

Re: A question about knees....

Understand completely Scragger,

My left knee was turning inward and down on the takeaway. Thus, hips sliding. The ol reverse pivot creeping back.

If there is flex - as Neil said, ie, forward and over the left foot than the hips can rotate.

Will enjoy the discussion over many bevvies next week

Nickers x

[Neil18]

Re: A question about knees....

Do we want our hips level all through the swing?

[Scragger63]

Re: A question about knees....

Do we want our hips level all through the swing?

My opinion is probably yes. But, unlike Nickers, I'm not particularly mechanically minded when it comes to my swing.

In a full shot, the hips start level and finish level, so, I guess it follows that maybe they should stay level throughout.

Have been told in the past, the major reason the hips turn at all is simply to allow for a greater rotation of the shoulders.

If the hips stay static, depending on how limber or supple we are, the shoulders can only rotate so far. Say maybe to a max of a quarter of a turn either way. When you add in hip turn, and you can then increase the range of motion of the shoulders to the point where your back is facing the target line at the top of your backswing.

Am I making any sense here....

Cheers

[BrianW]

Re: A question about knees....

Do we want our hips level all through the swing?

I don't think we do Neil. To me, if the hips stay level then so do the shoulders and that would not be good as you would be coming OTT. It's OK for them to stay level in the backswing but in the downswing we want our trail shoulder to rotate under and our lead shoulder lift as we rotate around our spine angle, that will make the lead hip rise up and the lead leg straighten. Some call this the "O" factor.

http://www.golf.com/golf/instruction...593284,00.html

[vp27519]

Re: A question about knees....

Coach has got me focusing on level left shoulder turn on takeaway to assist with pivot and maintain spine angle. I summise that I am sliding the hips when I don't do this. I reckon the left knee is causing this.

I don't have much flex due to 'arthur' being in between the discs of the lower back. That is why I think the left knee is doing what it is doing.

I agree with Brian's view on the follow through. Coach and I are purely working on the takeaway/pivot. He has not mentioned anything in regard to the shoulders on the follow through - they are doing what they are suppose to do.

My follow through - my lower body has to be quicker and follow through at impact. Lower for mine has to keep up with the upper.

[BrianW]

Re: A question about knees....

Coach has got me focusing on level left shoulder turn on takeaway to assist with pivot and maintain spine angle. I summise that I am sliding the hips when I don't do this. I reckon the left knee is causing this.

I don't have much flex due to 'arthur' being in between the discs of the lower back. That is why I think the left knee is doing what it is doing.

I agree with Brian's view on the follow through. Coach and I are purely working on the takeaway/pivot. He has not mentioned anything in regard to the shoulders on the follow through - they are doing what they are suppose to do.

My follow through - my lower body has to be quicker and follow through at impact. Lower for mine has to keep up with the upper.

Yes, I agree the hips and shoulders should stay fairly level in the takeaway.

[Neil18]

Re: A question about knees....

Indeed.

I know I always refer to these guys, but they are the ultimate. Watch Snead or Hogan and at impact. The shoulders hips and trail knee are angled down toward the ball. Everything is turning down into and beyond impact.

The right hip is most definately below the left. If the trail shoulder is down and the hips are level (or the right hip has stayed up) then you have two major portions of the body working against eachother, and rather a lot of backpain, loss of spine angle and straightening legs.