Early Release

[yukon]

I was having trouble with distance, hitting only a 5 iron from 150yd out. A friend suggested I was releasing the club too early and suggested strengthening up my grip. I did and gained a few more yards and also hit the ball with a little more consistency. I still release it too early and also when I try to hit a low punch shot I am unable to keep it low. I imagine that also is a result of the early release.
I just cant seem to get the idea if releasing the club. I cant seem to get the feel of it or to picture in my mind exactly what I need to do. I havent been to a pro to go over this yet but I figured I would post it here to see if I could get some help. Thanks

[LowPost42]

Re: Early Release

Sounds to me like flipping through impact.

Time for you to experience Greg's Right Hand Drill, or a Greg Norman's Secret.

[yukon]

Re: Early Release

Thanks for the link. I understand now what the release actually is but what would cause an early release?Is it the weight transfer? Over the top movement? or just trying desperately to get to the ball? I know you cant tell without actually seeing my swing but Im wondering if this is a common problem. Thanks again.

[rotator]

Re: Early Release

Hi yukon, LowPost42's observation is the key.

I had ball striking issues like yours a few years ago, and then I worked on the bent trailing wrist drills There is Greg's and there are many others. That improved my ball striking and distance enormously.

The trouble with the Jack Nicklaus video is that it's easy for him to say release, but you can get a release by casting the club. If you watch the swing, note that although he says release from the top, he holds his lag (bent wrist) well into the downswing, and the hands are leading the clubhead all the way to impact. At the hip high position, the hands are almost in front of him and the shaft is still parallel to the ground.

The drill I did was to immediately set my wrist cock from address (right wrist bent back, left wrist fully cocked) to the hip high position above, so the club shaft pointed down the target line. Then, I turned my shoulders and raised my arms to the top of the backswing in a normal on plane motion. On my downswing, I concentrated on returning back to that position (it helps to shift the weight forward, which drops the hands into that slot), with your hands leading and retaining the bent wrist. I've keyed on feeling the bent wrist all the way through impact, although the wrists seem to uncock naturally, but there is still a remnant of the desired bent right wrist (and the pronated left wrist at impact.

This is a strong position that all great golfers have. If you have access to Tiger Wood's swing in slow motion, or a stop action shot at impact, you will see this. Moe Norman said that the feeling he had was that the hands (and arms) were extending way past the ball, in the bent/pronated hand positions. He said it was not the case, but in his mind it seemed so. There may be a video on You Tube with this lesson, I've seen it a few times.

Ted

[vp27519]

Re: Early Release

Early release for mine is casting at the top of the down swing - like fishing. The angle between the wrist and arm increases and at impact the club head is ahead of the hands.

Try this. Get an old pillow case and half fill in with old rags (cheaper version of the impact bag).

Set up as you normally would with the pillow case where the ball would normally be. Take a swing and hit the pillow case. The hands should be ahead of the club head. This will help create feel.

Something you can do at night in the living room.

VP

[Mox]

Re: Early Release

http://mysite.verizon.net/gregjwillis/LESSON1.htm

this is true.

This tip has done more for my golf than ANY book og lesson by my local pro (who is very good btw).

It's a fundamental clue to understanding what goes on in the golf swing.
It is a hidden source of power and accuracy, and KEY to getting the right position at impact.

[yukon]

Re: Early Release

Thanks for your responses. As soon as I saw the nicklaus video I thought if I tried it I would definately be casting from the top.
I will try the bent wrist drill as well as the impact bag drill. I have one and never use it anyway. I appreciate the help!

[BrianW]

Re: Early Release

Please read the attached link, it explains to you how to hold the wrist break and the way it will release by it's self if you allow it. The problem is normally due to the fear of the clubface being left trailing and wide open through impact, this cannot happen if you swing through with conviction.
Actually the whole article (including the early wrist break) explains a very good way to control your swing such that you will be able to hit long and straight. It's very much like the method Ted (Rotator) explains in his post.

http://www.newgolfswing.com/newgolfswing08.php

My advice would be to keep away from devices like Greg Norman's secret as the wrists do not need to be locked up in the swing.

[rotator]

Re: Early Release

Please read the attached link, it explains to you how to hold the wrist break and the way it will release by it's self if you allow it. The problem is normally due to the fear of the clubface being left trailing and wide open through impact, this cannot happen if you swing through with conviction.
Actually the whole article (including the early wrist break) explains a very good way to control your swing such that you will be able to hit long and straight. It's very much like the method Ted (Rotator) explains in his post.

http://www.newgolfswing.com/newgolfswing08.php

My advice would be to keep away from devices like Greg Norman's secret as the wrists do not need to locked up in the swing.

I did not try to think too much about why the clubface squared up at impact, while implementing the trailing bent wrist. Initially, I thought, how did that happen? It always did. Brian is right about having to swing through trusting it and with conviction. I saw an old tip from Sergio which explained the reason. As you know he has tremendous lag, so you might wonder how does the clubface have a chance of squaring up for him. He says, as long as you release through the ball (with the arms fully extended past impact), centrifugal force will itself square up the clubface.

It then all started to tie together for me. I remembered Martin Hall talking about a discussion with his friend Jack Nicklaus. Martin asked Nicklaus "what is release?", and demonstrated one of those casting moves of recreational golfers, and knowing otherwise, asked if that was release.
Nicklaus, playing along, said.. "no, Martin, that's not release, that's rubbish. This is release!". What he demonstrated was the stop action position of the swing with the clubhead about a foot or two past impact, both arms fully extended, head still back. This is a classic position every good player has, and you've seen it in all the magazine covers and posters.

The common denominator is you have to have the weight shift, lag, bent wrist, hands ahead of the clubhead etc, in order to be able to result in a full release as described above.

Ted

[rotator]

Re: Early Release

Golfingguy28,

As for mixing up two things, I don't think so. The reason I commented on the Jack Nicklaus video, was it could easily be misconstrued re release by regular golfers. Obviously it did to yukon, as he said in his followup post.

That's why I took up the discussion about the bent wrist drill and emphasizing the lag.

Working on holding the lag as late as the swing will allow, before centrifugal force allows the clubhead to release into the ball, will simply help getting to impact with the hands ahead of the clubhead, and a pronated firm leading wrist. This is what most recreational golfers do not do. They have to work at it. That's the purpose of Greg Willis' and so many other bent wrist drill. That's why aids like The Secret, McLean's Glove have been developed, because the common golfer nees help. It could be argued that there is some problems with them, but the golfers using them may not agree, because they need the prop to impact the proper feel on them. You have to do drills and in some cases overdo the action in the more beneficial direction, in order to rid yourself of the embedded problem.

yukon has a problem, which even he feels is quick release. It's a common problem for recreational golfers. I used to have it and it is really frustrating. You try to develop a faster swing speed, which you are physically capable of, but in trying to fire the club through faster, you end up trying to go a 150 miles an hour from the top. Many golfers, as documented in these threads also tend to flip their hands at the bottom, as well, which LowPost28 often catches as a culprit in weak shots. Then, you wonder why the 5 iron only goes 150 yards.

I'm just trying to help golfers, who I recognize to have the same problems I had, and was able to resolve. I wish I had this help 40 years ago.

You do agree that there are countless golfers this bent wrist drill has helped. In my case, along with teaching myself how to get out of the insiduous casting and over the top steep swing, this has allowed me to improve the game significantly and enjoy it more. In fact the two are related, in that once I worked on shifting the weight and dropping the arms down with the lag, I found I could not go over the top.

I'm trying to follow your post and I don't see much difference in substance to what I'm saying.

I stand by my stated positions, which I always try to substantiate, about the lag achieved in all good golfers, instructors such as Greg Willis, the words of Jack Nicklaus and Moe Norman, and these are the limited examples I quoted. I'm not sure but does 3 Skills, which has a large following on this forum, teach this? There's a instructor in St Andrews, Scotland, Andy Brown, and this is his major technique, for which he has helped a lot of golfers, myself included.

I'm not going to debate the point further with you. I have great difficulty following your posts, and your analogies. This is but one example.. I don't think he holds the lag at all, I do believe the lag is held..

I'll be judged by the readers, in any case, as it always should be in these open forums.

Ted

[yukon]

Re: Early Release

My lack of distance due to early release Im hoping is just a part of learning this game. Ive been playing for about 11 years now and carry a 13 handicap. I used to hit an 8 or 7 iron from 150 yds. This lack of distance has been going on for maybe the last two years. I used to tee off with a 3 wood (could not hit a driver before to save my life). Now I hit my driver maybe 200, 225 on a good shot but usually I hit it pretty straight, just real high. although I hit it much shorter than I used to I do hit it much straighter. I am 39 years old and in pretty decent shape so I dont think age is a factor.
I have been hitting into a net everyday so I cant really tell if these drills are working so far. At times it feels like im hitting it really pure but cant tell for sure until I get to the range tomorrow if it doesnt rain.
I know its not going to get better overnight but will continue to work at it. Thanks to all for your help.

[rotator]

Re: Early Release

Hi yukon,

As I've said often, I spent so much time on golf, studying it, learning about club fitting and building, and trying out each and every tip that comes along. For a long period, I subscribed to many of the magagines at the same time, and I seldom missed golf tournies and 24 hour Golf Channel lessons.

The problem I had was I would be playing well, but seeing a tip in Golf Digest or so, or watching the tournies, I'd see something that catches my eye as something that will get me more distance, or whatever, The problem is when you try these things in isolation, you may have a misinterpretation and you overdo the move.

That could be why you have regressed.

Some of my classics:-

-striving to make that +90 degree shoulder turn, I ended up ingraining a reverse pivot. The harder you try to hit from this position, the distance does not increase, and there are many other associated problems (like not being able to weight shift or drop to the inside etc. When you don't see the distance improvement, I'd try to turn the shoulders even more. This was a tough one to overcome, for me because like so many others, you don't know what your swing actually looks like. I would finish a tournament ( I refer to tournaments, because that's when you try harder, and you get into a funk with the swing. I used to wonder why the ball and calf muscles of my front foot was so sore, and why every part of my whole body was wracked with pain.

-casting - again, I was trying to whip the club through faster, but without the proper sequence and techniques, the faster I tried to swing the club, the more I was casting from the top, so in effect, over the top, decelerating at impact.

-flipping- ditto as above, and also trying to elevate the ball.

There were many others. It's a good thing I am as strong as a bull. I basically muscled every thing.

I'm going on 69, so 39 is a baby. I believe there are some basic swing moves, which help the game the most, and with those learned, you will have a sound enjoyable game. The rest of it is gravy, for the elite players. The problems associated with wrong moves seem to be the same and constantly show up in discussions and the fixes offered.

Ted

[BrianW]

Re: Early Release

The RHD is a "drill" and as far as I can understand is probably a way to envisage a concept only. It is not in my opinion a way to make a golf swing though, it is too constricting and requires you to be almost facing the target at impact. I have tried it and it ingrained some horrible shanking due to over rotating through the shot. I would also say that Greg Normans 'Secret' is a device that creates unnatural restrictions on the wrists and useful only as a Drill concept..

If you want to learn a swing that encourages good wrist control and keeps the club on plane then look at Joe Dante's method that I attached previously:

http://www.newgolfswing.com/newgolfswing02.php

[rotator]

Re: Early Release

One more try.

The whole idea is to help out the majority of golfers who have problems. Would you agree that casting (losing the angle of the wrists early) and flipping (at the bottom) are problems for many golfers?

If you propose to people they could work on eliminating those problems by retaining that angle, until the last minute, do you not think that will help more than it will harm? I believe that's what most good golfers would agree on.

I think I have just figured out what is bothering you, from your analogy about car peel and whatever and your earlier statements about the Jack Nicklaus release video. It seems you are thinking we are talking about a hold-on restrictive lag. That is not the case. Nobody said that, that is what you alone assumed. You know the grip should be fairly light, and the wrist breaks are likewise. When you take the club back and create the wrist angles, we're not talking about a death grip and strained muscles. When we talk about retaining the lag from the top, we're not talking about a forced hold-on restrictive lag.

Now, when you see the slow-mo stop action lags of Sergio and all the great golfersl, it's not a hold-on restrictive lag, but it is a huge lag retained from the top , and even increasing, well into the downswing. It can't be a restrictive lag, as that would inhibit the full release at the bottom (which is the true release I referred to, and considered as such by Nicklaus). You are looking at Nicklaus saying he releases from the top (i.e. not being restrictive from the top), which is the case, but he and all the great golfers also hold the angle well into the swing.

As I have said and Brian aptly states with the following:- Please read the attached link, it explains to you how to hold the wrist break and the way it will release by it's self if you allow it. The problem is normally due to the fear of the clubface being left trailing and wide open through impact, this cannot happen if you swing through with conviction.
Actually the whole article (including the early wrist break) explains a very good way to control your swing such that you will be able to hit long and straight. It's very much like the method Ted (Rotator) explains in his post.


With this statement of yours:- it kind of elaborates on casting from the top is good if done right because that is the most natural way to swing a club. look at the 2:00 marker about. "take the pivot away and you have this" and he chops doen from the top like chopping wood. you don't HOLD any angle untill last minute when chopping because it is not natual and it gives your no speed,yet if you took a video of yourslef, i would be willing to bet that there is an angle HELD untill last minute. , you are concurring with the observation I made in the earlier post about working at holding the lag until the last minute, when it seems impossible the clubface will square up.

This is why I find your posts difficult to understand what you're arguing about. Perhaps, the story is in what I said above re your possible misunderstanding of the lag being a hold-on restrictive lag. I hope this ends this issue,

Ted

[rotator]

Re: Early Release

The RHD is a "drill" and as far as I can understand is probably a way to envisage a concept only. It is not in my opinion a way to make a golf swing though, it is too constricting and requires you to be almost facing the target at impact. I have tried it and it ingrained some horrible shanking due to over rotating through the shot. I would also say that Greg Normans 'Secret' is a device that creates unnatural restrictions on the wrists and useful only as a Drill concept..

If you want to learn a swing that encourages good wrist control and keeps the club on plane then look at Joe Dante's method that I attached previously:

http://www.newgolfswing.com/newgolfswing02.php

Hi Brian,

I'm a proponent of the Dante method, and I believe Andy Brown's teachings are based on Dante. It stresses presetting the bent wrist. It's simplified the game for me and it's difficult to go off, even if you have not played in a while. I would miss a few weeks of playing and step right to the first tee and can finish with a respectable game. It's easier on my body too.

Ted