Trackman says...

[LowPost42]

What I've known for a while is true - initial ball direction is 85% face angle, and only 15% path. Some nice 'myth dispelling' going on here.

http://www.trackmangolf.com/newslett...anuary2009.pdf

[BrianW]

Re: Trackman says...

nice find, its pretty interesting. This should also back up LP42's teachings that says with VLA (Vertical launch angle), loft efffect more than approach. In other words, loft accounts for 85% and 15% on the path (descending path or acending path)

Don't mix AoA & Launch angle with swing path v club face angle. It's not to do with launch angle and loft, this is the swing path verses clubface angle.

[LowPost42]

Re: Trackman says...

Don't mix AoA & Launch angle with swing path v club face angle. It's not to do with launch angle and loft, this is the swing path verses clubface angle.

Great points Brian.

AoA effects LA (in combination with loft). However, I think golfinguy was pointing out that your loft effects your LA more than your AoA - in other words, to majorly effect your LA, change your loft. This isn't to say AoA isn't important - it completely is, especially in the quest for distance off the tee.

But the premise is the same - the angle of the face (whether it's in regards to open/shut or the loft angle) is a far greater determiner of initial ball direction than path (whether it's in/out or out/in; or descending or acending.)

In both cases, path cannot be ignored. It's just the lesser of the contributors to the equation.

But either GoNavy or GJS and I have gone back and forth over the topic for shot shaping (path vs FA) - it's nice to know that I'm not crazy. Well, not as crazy.

[jbrunk]

Re: Trackman says...

There is some really interesting stuff coming out about these trackman findings.

You can't aim straight and hit a straight ball with a square/straight face with any forward lean at all.

[LowPost42]

Re: Trackman says...

I'd offer around 167 mph ball speed to wield an 8 degree driver.

[bill reed]

Re: Trackman says...

hi Golfinguy
i use to use a 8% wooden headed ping eye driver and i played with that for years with only a swing speed of 105. and i got good distance of about 250yds and a reasonably good hight of flight.
on one of the short par 3s i use to play the driver about 75% to hit a low running shot 220 yards. i think that must of been a swing speed of about 90.
don't think it so much swing speed to hit a 8% driver as it is to hit the ball close to the sweet spot on the face. I'm sure someone with a swing speed of 90 could use a 8% driver but contact on the upswing is needed to get the ball in the air. so the set up has to be right more than the swing speed.
cheers
bill

[LowPost42]

Re: Trackman says...

Gents, the reason you need a fair bit of swing speed to use lower lofted clubs is because swing speed is linked to spin rates - the faster you swing, the more spin is generated.

In an optimal distance setup, it would look something like this:

Your driver would be selected for the spin characteristics based on the ball and shaft you play.

You would then learn to hit up an appropriate amount to create the proper launch angle.

The issue is that for some with higher swing speeds, they'd have to play such a low loft and hit up such a high amount that their AoA would be ridiculously positive and very difficult to a) attain and b) repeat.

So for these players it's more of a compromise - they play the least loft they can to hit it as far as they can. They leave yards on the table because they can't make up the LA with AoA.

[BrianW]

Re: Trackman says...

Teeing the ball higher and a slightly rear angled sternum assists in creating a higher AoA..

[LowPost42]

Re: Trackman says...

As does playing it more forward if you can hold off the release.

However, for the average 85 MPH SS player, they'll never hit 'up' enough to achieve an optimum LA. And someone at 60 MPH? Fuggedaboudit. The most success I've had was fitting a consistent 60 MPH player into a superlightweight shaft (45g) and a 17 degree head - and she still could have used a plus 8 AoA to achieve optimum launch conditions.

[rotator]

Re: Trackman says...

There's an article in the February Golf Digest, which addresses Trackman Says The Key to Distance: Loft or Flex? This adds another slant into the loft and flex, and LA discussions.

To refine the basic belief that most average golfers would benefit from higher lofted drivers, GD conducted tests with a combination of loft and flex, to see which works better: less loft with more flex, or more loft with less flex.

They tested average to above average golfers with swing speeds of 95 to 102 mph, and found that less loft but more flex tended to produce better launch conditions (more carry and more total distance). In the tests, a 9* driver with a regular-flex shaft worked better than a 10* driver with a stiff-flex shaft.

A table shows the results, which has the 10* stiff-flex shaft driver with a carry of 215 and a total of about 228 yards; the 9* regular-flex shaft driver has a carry of 222 and a total of about 242 yards.

For the reason why that would be, Tom Wishon was quoted as explaining it has to do with a player's swing type. Less skilled players who cast the club from the top cause a shaft with more flex to bow and return to straight well before making contact with the ball. Conversely, a better player who maintains wrist angle for a later release will cause the shaft to bow and spring forward just before impact, essentially adding loft at impact. "THis is the reason," Wishon says. "that we advise our clubmakers to always err on the side of a more flexible shaft, even with later-release players".

I guess the thing that counts is the results.

Ted

[rotator]

Re: Trackman says...

I agree a more flexible shaft will give anyone more distance, but you loose acuracy when you got a shaft flopping around near impact, I think that is why (other than breaking the weaker shafts) high swing speed players use stiffer shafts.

That's right, this test was for average golfers with moderate SS and less than great technique, who would benefit the most.

There is no way a strong swinger could cope with a flexible shaft. The club and swing would be totally out of control. Tiger has WhiteBoard shaft for his driver and BlueBoard for his 3 wood. Irons have X stiff.

There were some good pros that played with regular flex drivers in their careers. I don't know if any still do.

Ted