stack and tilt extreme draw

[gedebe]

Hi everyone,

I recently took S&T up. Like many others preceding, I found out that it produced results very quickly (once you get everything in order with the fundamentals, that is). My irons are crisp and distance has increased on account that I sucked with my previous swing

My problem now is that with my 5 iron I sometimes get a very big draw and hit about 10 metres to the left of the target. I am also trying to get my left wrist flat and my right wrist in the "flying wedge", but I am struggling.

Hope someone can help.
cheers

[ben hogan]

Re: stack and tilt extreme draw

Here's a video on maintaining " the flying wedges "
Visit his channel on youtube there's more videos on
stack and tilt...

[gedebe]

Re: stack and tilt extreme draw

hey Mr Hogan,

Thanks for the reference.

[rotator]

Re: stack and tilt extreme draw

Hi everyone,

I recently took S&T up. Like many others preceding, I found out that it produced results very quickly (once you get everything in order with the fundamentals, that is). My irons are crisp and distance has increased on account that I sucked with my previous swing

My problem now is that with my 5 iron I sometimes get a very big draw and hit about 10 metres to the left of the target. I am also trying to get my left wrist flat and my right wrist in the "flying wedge", but I am struggling.

Hope someone can help.
cheers

Hi gedebe,

Is it only with the 5 iron you have the problem with hooking, and are the other clubs OK? That would seem very odd. Are the longer irons than the 5 iron OK? Are the flights of the iron shots with the S&T abnormally low?

Regardless, as you know the draw or hook is largely the result of a closed to the target line clubface (possibly along with an inside to outside swing path). So, you should be looking at what is causing the closed face, and only with the 5 iron. It could be the grip, or the takeaway and top of backswing position, which is causing your clubface to return to impact closed. It could be the wrists are turning over, which presumably is the reason you are working on the flat/flying wedge wrist position, but why only with the 5 iron?

Sorry, but I don't know if anyone can address this, as it would be speculation, without knowing the particulars.

Ted

[gedebe]

Re: stack and tilt extreme draw

hi Ted

a thousand apologies for being unintentionally cryptic and causing confusion. Sorry! I actually strike it good from sand wedge up to 6 iron. The 5 is the longest iron I carry (yeah I am one of those who carry iron-woods to replace 3 and 4 irons). So when I said it only happens with the 5 iron it actually means 5 and below (ie 3 and 4 and 2 if I carried them ) I happen to hit the iron woods good but the 3 wood and driver inconsistently. so technically yeah it only happens with the 5 irons.

your explanation helps tho, and i will try it out. thanks a lot.
again sorry for the confusion.
cheers.

ps played in a tournament two days ago with mixed results. it was a scramble format - meaning everyone hits from one spot most of the time. I hit some of the best irons (crisp soaring draws and bullet-like wedges)....but also some of the worst (topping, duffing slicing the works)!!
I think the reason i hit some of those awful shots is that i was a little subconscious of my S&T swing when everyone is crowded around me. Just a thought.

[rotator]

Re: stack and tilt extreme draw

I hit some of the best irons (crisp soaring draws and bullet-like wedges)...

This must give you confidence that the swing is working well for you, very encouraging.

There is a common complaint of the S&T swing that it works well with the shorter irons, but at the other end of the scale, the swing is inconsistent for Driver and other woods. I suppose it's the lower lofts of these longer clubs which is not conducive to the more steep swing inherent in S&T. The 5 iron may be getting to the upper tolerance level for you for this reason.

Advocates of S&T seem to need to modify their swing for these longer clubs. I believe that Mike Weir's driver swing is different from his iron swing to compensate. He used to have 10.5 * loft, so perhaps that is one way to keep the trajectory higher.

I'm not sure how great drivers of the ball using S&T are able to do it. Aaron Baddeley and Erix Axely are great drivers of the ball. You should check out their swings.

I have tried S&T as a point of experimentation, and I had some success with it.

I also have a bunch of hybrids in my bag to replace the long irons, because they perform so well.

Ted

[gedebe]

Re: stack and tilt extreme draw

hey everybody

went to the range today and tried to do what Ted advised. i concentrated on firm left wrist and presto - no more hooks with the 5 iron. Great! therefore i suspect it was the flipping release that caused the hook. hit about 50 balls with the 5 and there were only about five that went way left, hope more practice will banish it forever.

this newfound success encouraged me to try the driver next. results were mixed with the true S&T method.....somehow hitting down w the driver conflicts w my brain. however i persevered and hit some low flying objects that went about 210m and then rolled about another 50m or so. however they were straight.
by the way i am a 16 hcp and hoping to see the other side of 10 soon
cheers

[gedebe]

Re: stack and tilt extreme draw

Hello

making good progress with the extreme 5 iron draw in as much not hooking it anymore (most times).

I have a question on the driver. In S/T do you still have the low point of the swing after the ball or before it?

I have had some success with the ball teed at exactly the same place as my irons but drives are a bit shorter. I tee it low by the way. This means that in effect I am actually hitting down on the driver??? or is it not?

Glad if anyone can help.
Cheers

[BrianW]

Re: stack and tilt extreme draw

Hi,

When I experimented with S&T I could not apply it well with my driver, I was hitting on too steep a downswing that caught the ball very high on the driver face and ballooned the ball upwards with little distance, it seemed to work well with irons though.

I have learned to use a number of different swing styles (A bit like Ted ) but I always use the same driver swing that travels more around my body with a steady tempo and shallow approach that catches the ball slightly on the upswing, this gives me effortless distance and a nice draw shape.

[gedebe]

Re: stack and tilt extreme draw

Hi Brian

played at my home course today with your input in mind. Well, i did hit it as far as i used to at least and on some holes about 25m farther. thanks!!! trouble was about 80 per cent of them are now pulls!! went into the left trees twice and left water hazard one time. one drive was a salvageable slice. i think i must be either manipulating the club with my hands (same mistake i did w my 5 iron - which i hit absolutely PURE today but pity i had only three occasions to use it ) or i have developed an out to in swing w the driver on account that sometimes my brain is telling me i am not too comfortable w s/t driver) anyway the battle continues.

i ended up shooting a respectable 85 (for me) despite the water and trees due to a cooperative 3 wood and excellent irons.

thanks guys, will keep you posted on my progress w the driver.


cheers
ps tried to order the get stacked dvd from rockbottom golf on ebay but apparently they dont ship to where i am

[BrianW]

Re: stack and tilt extreme draw

Hi Brian

played at my home course today with your input in mind. Well, i did hit it as far as i used to at least and on some holes about 25m farther. thanks!!! trouble was about 80 per cent of them are now pulls!! went into the left trees twice and left water hazard one time. one drive was a salvageable slice. i think i must be either manipulating the club with my hands (same mistake i did w my 5 iron - which i hit absolutely PURE today but pity i had only three occasions to use it ) or i have developed an out to in swing w the driver on account that sometimes my brain is telling me i am not too comfortable w s/t driver) anyway the battle continues.

i ended up shooting a respectable 85 (for me) despite the water and trees due to a cooperative 3 wood and excellent irons.

thanks guys, will keep you posted on my progress w the driver.


cheers
ps tried to order the get stacked dvd from rockbottom golf on ebay but apparently they dont ship to where i am

Sounds like you are getting a bit overactive with your wrists and arms. Try a slightly weaker grip and keeping your arms more in the middle of your chest through impact, I like to think of hitting the ball with the centre of my chest.

Good golfing

[gedebe]

Re: stack and tilt extreme draw

hi

just an update. I AM CURED! Yes, it's a miracle but my hooks and "overdraws"
w the driver are no more.
I got the cure from Nick Clearwater. He said to put a tee under each armpit to maintain the pressure points and keep the arms close to the body. This would cure hooks and pushes for people who take overdo the inside out swing. I tried it and hey presto it worked at the range.
Not been able to take it to the course yet. Nick recommended to play a few rounds with these tees. It sure would look strange to my playing partners but I am game to try it. Meanwhile, still chasing it.
Cheers

[gedebe]

Re: stack and tilt extreme draw

Just an update. Been working on retaining my flying wedges via lifting the thumb and forefinger drill to feel the pressure point. Must say its a good drill because for the first time (really) I am lagging the club-head. Even my driving is more predictable now - not as far as I used to hit them before S&T but definitely straighter now. Hardly ever a hook or leaks to the right. I AM CHUFFED.
cheers

[jbrunk]

Re: stack and tilt extreme draw

You are at both ends of the spectrum there. From stack and tilt to flying wedges! Sounds like a title to a song.

Good times!

[gedebe]

Re: stack and tilt extreme draw

hey you're right. there's poetry in there somewhere. ain't this game a crazy one?
i figured that if i had spent the same amount of time, energy, money and hopes on something else i would at least be a concert-grade pianist for example by now. ha ha.
the battle continues.........