Clubhead Speed Percentage

[dagoos]

Hi golfers does anyone know what percent the hands contribute to the speed of the clubhead ,verus rotation and all the other contributing factors to speed .I have a speed stick and with just the hands I can generate speeds of up 75 mph. Being a vintage golfer or 55 I can swing comfortablly at 95-100. So where should I focus improvement on speed
the hands or body legs ....any help would be welcome

[bill reed]

Re: Clubhead Speed Percentage

hi
i think its diffrent for each type of swing and the person swinging.
some use there wrists more than others to speed the club into the ball and some have more shoulder turn and less hips movement, others get a lot of power from the hip slid as it changes the attack into the ball.
not sure just how good the speed stick is at measuring the real speed of the swing compared to a swing monitor.
maybe lowpost who does a lot more work with speed monitors might know?
cheers
bill

[BrianW]

Re: Clubhead Speed Percentage

What exactly are you trying to achieve? Do you hit a good ball flight or are many of your shots slices, hooks or mishits?

If you can hit the ball long with a nice flight then looking into ways of increasing clubhead speed would assist you. If your ball flight is not consistently good then you should be concentrating your time on making better ball contact. Most players will be able to improve their ball distance and flight by swinging smoother with a more even tempo that allows them to keep their body and club moving together through impact. The numbers on your speedstick will not indicate if you are making solid, square contact out of the clubs sweetspot.

[LowPost42]

Re: Clubhead Speed Percentage

The only thing I can figure to do to 'break it down' is to find a way to just move parts individually to see how much they contribute.

In other words, keep the arms solid and just 'flip the club around' with the wrists, and see what the radar says. Then keep the hands still and swing just the arms. Then keep both the arms and hands still and just turn the shoulders (keeping the hips square.) Then find a way to have just the hips rotate; I assume the body would rotate with it as the hips themselves would provide zero clubhead movement.

If I were to be working "any one thing" I'd work out abs (including obliques).

But as Bill says - it's completely dependent on your swing. I use a rotary swing with no concious manipulation of the hands or arms, so I suppose I could generate more speed by learning to use them.

[dagoos]

Re: Clubhead Speed Percentage

Thanks guys good info ,the reason I m asking about the hands is I have noticed old baseball players hit the ball along ways , and they seem to get most of their speed from the hands "release" what ever you want to call it
I have good rotation and am now going to add a bit of leg motion "squat"to start the downsnwing and then fire the hands which I never really did before to get that extra 10 -15 mph , the speed stick is oly used to measure differences not a actual swing speed indicator, Im to thrifty to buy a radar or home monitor.I have a picture swing "hogan" but can only hit the ball bout 240 and want more as cheap as I can get it ,,,,so keep the shortcuts to distance comin guys . PS I have already done 15 situp for abs strenght ,,,,,OUCH!!!!!! OLE SMOOTHIE

[bill reed]

Re: Clubhead Speed Percentage

hi Dagoos
work on hitting the ball out the sweet spot will give you more distance, it will put the right amount of spin on the ball helping it carry and also give it the right amount of roll. get impact tape or use talc on the face of the driver to see where you make contact with the ball. hitting just a 1/4 inch off the sweet spot can cost you 10 to 15 yards on a drive.
working on hitting the ball close to the sweet spot will give you more distance and more consistency that working on your abs but it a good idea to to have your abs nice and strong and that will help too.
cheers
bill

[LowPost42]

Re: Clubhead Speed Percentage

hi Dagoos
work on hitting the ball out the sweet spot will give you more distance, it will put the right amount of spin on the ball helping it carry and also give it the right amount of roll. get impact tape or use talc on the face of the driver to see where you make contact with the ball. hitting just a 1/4 inch off the sweet spot can cost you 10 to 15 yards on a drive.
working on hitting the ball close to the sweet spot will give you more distance and more consistency that working on your abs but it a good idea to to have your abs nice and strong and that will help too.
cheers
bill

There's a caveat there, Bill; when it comes to drivers the area of max COR and the sweetspot (CoG intersection) aren't necessarily in the same spot. Also, with drivers, we're seeing more distance attained from hitting anywhere from 1/4" to 1/2" above vertical center - more launch and less spin. Shots hit lower on the face launch lower and spin more.

Now, that said, good contact trumps swing speed. I've worked with a player who nutted one while swinging 120, and it was 20 yards past a toe shot at 127 (not to mention straighter).

[bill reed]

Re: Clubhead Speed Percentage

hi lowpost
it seems the me big head drivers (460cc) drivers have the sweet spot higher than back when we used 360 head drivers. i still use a 360 zing 2 and the sweet spot is right in the center of the face but my friends Ping G2 has the sweet spot about 10cm higher than the center of the the face.
take it thats why you use the 3 or 4 inch tees.
think thats why its a good idea to see where you hit with not just the driver but all your clubs and know where the sweet spot is, i think this is important with the putter too. with my irons it tends to be about grove 4 or 5.
cheers
bill

[kbp]

Re: Clubhead Speed Percentage

I think you’ve asked two different questions. The first post implies an application of muscular force by the hands (which is actually engaging the forearm muscles). The second post describes a "release" of the hands. The "release" action is a major contributor to speed, but it is not a muscular action, in and of itself.

As you may know, the golf swing is basically a hinge and lever system driven by a rotating core. The levers being the arms and the club and the hinges being the shoulders and wrists. The core is the legs, hips, abs, chest, shoulders. It is the changes in the geometry of the lever system, by the release of the hinges, that converts the energy from a very powerful but relatively slow moving core into a less forceful but extremely fast moving clubhead.

Does "helping" the wrist release by actively engaging the forearm muscles increase speed? The way to measure this would be to swing the speed stick with the wrists acting only as hinges. Then swing the stick and purposefully apply force to help the wrist action. Whether it will be faster probably depends on how good your swing mechanics and plane are. The better you operate the lever system, the less speed, as a percentage, will be improved with "help" from the forearm muscles. In some cases it may actually reduce speed.

Accuracy, as others have stated, is an entirely different matter.

[rotator]

Re: Clubhead Speed Percentage

I've mentioned this before, and unfortunately it created a major argument from someone on the board who has a different swing theory.

I have seen top instructors, such as Jim McLean and others, repeat this range of figure many times, so it is not an isolated pie-in-the-sky statement. I also recall reading accounts of controlled tests which came up with the figure. I'm sure you have seen examples of every aspect of golf, which has had serious testing. It is actually quite amusing, if you browse the internet. You see Drs. Watanabe and Hashimoto of Tokyo University, or whoever, publishing a paper on the efficiency of the toes, or whatever in the golf swing.

The accounts I refer to above said that about 76% of the speed of the club comes from the interaction of the arms, forearms, wrists and hands.

Regardless of the actual percentage, depending on the type of swing, the contribution of the arms, wrists and hands is considerable.

In this regard, I make reference to Dennis Walters, who can hit a ball 250 yards, while strapped to his golf cart seat, albeit he does have a limited shoulder turn. The point is, I don't think it is unreasonable to presume that 76% of his distance is from his below the shoulders elements (say 200 yards).

kbp refers to the levers and hinges interactions, which is the key. One of the major contributors, which should not to be discounted, is the folding and unfolding of the right elbow in the proper sequence with the other elements (cue the classic slow motion image of a pitcher's throwing motion, with the elbow leading the forward motion of the arm, and the unbending which accelerates the forearms, wrists and hands to each rotate, release etc, to further compound the speed.

As kbp suggests, short of having sophisticated testing apparatus and the scientific discipline to conduct a Nobel Prize worthy study, it would be interesting for someone who has the Speed Stick to do isolated readings of hands (wrists) only, arms only (no elbow bending, no wrists), etc. I'd loke to see this.

Ted

[rotator]

Re: Clubhead Speed Percentage

For those who do not know Dennis Walters.

Ted

[BrianW]

Re: Clubhead Speed Percentage

This topic always promotes a very interesting discussion.

Relating to my own game I have suddenly started driving the ball further than ever, I seem to be out driving my peers by at least 30 - 50 yards these days, I also seem to be able to drive the ball to target with a small degree of error. (Honestly I am not boasting )

It is difficult to pin down exactly how I am achieving this (My driving was fairly good before but not this good). Game after game now I return thinking that I didn't hit a single drive that I was not pleased with. The only swing thought I have is that I am taking the club back on plane and rotating my core in the downswing slower than I should to gain this distance, I now get a feel of swinging right through the ball with my body and arms perfectly connected, this gives a sensation of the club releasing effortlessly and taking me through to a great balanced finish.

My arms and wrists may be rotating through impact but not by any conscious effort.

[bill reed]

Re: Clubhead Speed Percentage

hi Brian
i think your last statement (my arms and wrists may rotate but do so by no conscious effort.) and i think that is where the secret lies.
not doing anything consciously and letting the body respond in a reflex action to how you have set it up in the back swing.
i think thats where your extra distance comes from as well as your sweet spot hitting.
keep up the good driving and just get your short game up to the same standard and you'll be down in the low 70s. you seen to be on the right tracks.
cheers
bill

[BrianW]

Re: Clubhead Speed Percentage

hi Brian
i think your last statement (my arms and wrists may rotate but do so by no conscious effort.) and i think that is where the secret lies.
not doing anything consciously and letting the body respond in a reflex action to how you have set it up in the back swing.
i think thats where your extra distance comes from as well as your sweet spot hitting.
keep up the good driving and just get your short game up to the same standard and you'll be down in the low 70s. you seen to be on the right tracks.
cheers
bill

Hi Bill,

Thanks as normal.

Actually my short game is fairly good, I have been improving since my early retirement as I play around 3 times mid - week plus a bit on weekends. I am getting my fair share of pars and even a few birdies here and there.

How is your game these days?

[bill reed]

Re: Clubhead Speed Percentage

hi Brian
came of my motorbike on the ice and broke my right thumb about 6 weeks ago so can't hold a club. hope to be playing in a few weeks. my handicap has gone up to 12 again but think i will have a job getting down to 10 again this year.
cheers
Bill