it's one thing to see it, it's another to do it!

[rotator]

I really like the material in this website. I love the dynamic snapshots.

It may generate discussions and observations, as to misconceptions and opinions as to what is right or wrong. If it's admiration to strive to emulate in part what Tiger and others are doing well; it's one thing to see them doing it, it's another thing to find the way to do it. It's an inspiration anyways.

http://www.aroundhawaii.com/lifestyl...chieve_it.html

Ted

[LowPost42]

Re: it's one thing to see it, it's another to do it!

You can't 'make' positions happen. If you move correctly, the positions take care of themselves.

[rotator]

Re: it's one thing to see it, it's another to do it!

You can't 'make' positions happen. If you move correctly, the positions take care of themselves.

You can "make" positions happen, in that, if you "get" to the positions, it's an indication, all other factors being equal, the swing was executed well. So you work on "making" the positions happen. The trouble is many players do not know what proper impact position is, mistakenly misinterpreting that the post impact position they see on magazine covers where Fred Couples has his arms extended, is the result of throwing their hands at the ball. So they throw their hands at the ball before impact.

Ted

[LowPost42]

Re: it's one thing to see it, it's another to do it!

You can "make" positions happen, in that, if you "get" to the positions, it's an indication, all other factors being equal, the swing was executed well. So you work on "making" the positions happen. The trouble is many players do not know what proper impact position is, mistakenly misinterpreting that the post impact position they see on magazine covers where Fred Couples has his arms extended, is the result of throwing their hands at the ball. So they throw their hands at the ball before impact.

Ted

Ted, IMO the problem with golf instruction is that it's all about hitting these positions. Get into this position at the top, check for this position halfway down, blah blah blah. They're fine checkpoints - but they're indicators, not targets. I don't work on my takeaway to try and look like Tiger or Craig Stadler (who's shape I'm closer to) or any of that. You need to move the body properly, and once you've done that the checkpoints will fall into place.

[rotator]

Re: it's one thing to see it, it's another to do it!

Hi LowPost,

What I am saying is that many players and beginners do not know what the "checkpoint" positions look like, or have a total misconception. I've been there, and I'm sure you have also when starting out and before you gained all the knowledge you have now. That did not happen overnight.

Ted

[Neil18]

Re: it's one thing to see it, it's another to do it!

I think one of the main problems is that the golf swing is not looked at holistically.

It's a total body motion with flow and rhythm. Not a piece by piece set of movements.

Better than Ben's, better than Tigers, better than Freddy's.

Pure rhythmical magic and not a contrived position in sight.

Absolute beauty.

Strive for the motion, not what it looks like positionally.

[bill reed]

Re: it's one thing to see it, it's another to do it!

hi Ted
i think one other thing with Freddy is that a lot of people don't realize his open stance and the way he pushes his hands through the ball a bit like Trevino does with no turning over of the wrists till well after impact it as if he try's to hold off the turning over of the right hand on top of the left.
i think seeing pictures just after impact like you say can give the wrong impression when you don't see what went before.
if you see Trevino just after the ball starts on its way you can't tell what his set up was before he played the ball unless you have seen and understood his swing before you have seen the impact picture. i think its the same with Freddy and his swing.
cheers
Bill

[LowPost42]

Re: it's one thing to see it, it's another to do it!

Hi LowPost,

What I am saying is that many players and beginners do not know what the "checkpoint" positions look like, or have a total misconception. I've been there, and I'm sure you have also when starting out and before you gained all the knowledge you have now. That did not happen overnight.

Ted

I'm with you now. The other thing that some players don't realise is that 'close' sometimes doesn't cut it. "I look close" won't always be useful.

A player that swings from 2 degrees inside and a player that swings from 2 degrees outside are "close" but the results can be radically different.

[kbp]

Re: it's one thing to see it, it's another to do it!

IMO, the swing needs to be approached in a holistic manner as Neil says, with a complete understanding of what actions we are trying to achieve and of equal importance, why those actions are necessary. This would include body movements and club action, and would be nearly impossible without some study/explanation of basic positions.

[rotator]

Re: it's one thing to see it, it's another to do it!

I don't know how people are interpreting my posting of this material into saying I am endorsing a position by position method. I am only showing a snapshot of positions which should ideally be attained, in the course of making a good swing. These dynamic position snapshots are available for any golfer, Snead included, so that does not necessarily dictate Snead went from piece to piece.

I have adopted a swinging motion, and do not rigidly go from position to position. I do though understand that I have to be in (or be going through) certain ideal positions and movements to achieve a decent result. This is after years of not understanding, or in fact misinterpreting, what I read and heard (often from my equally clueless playing partners) about the golf swing. It was not until I learned what the dynamic positions should ideally be, and a better understanding of how I might achieve getting to and through those positions, that the swing made sense. I play better and enjoy myself, because there are certainties to strive for.

I don't think you can just tell a beginner to just slash away and don't think about it. I believe kbp said it right. "This would include body movements and club action, and would be nearly impossible without some study/explanation of basic positions."

Even the pros are constantly looking at their positions. It's a common thing to see someone like Tiger, after they miss a shot, stand back and dissect their swing motion position to position, and what they did wrong and what they had to do properly. So imagine what they will work on at practice and what the coach will tell them about positions, good and bad.

Ted

[BrianW]

Re: it's one thing to see it, it's another to do it!

I don't know how people are interpreting my posting of this material into saying I am endorsing a position by position method. I am only showing a snapshot of positions which should ideally be attained, in the course of making a good swing. These dynamic position snapshots are available for any golfer, Snead included, so that does not necessarily dictate Snead went from piece to piece.

I have adopted a swinging motion, and do not rigidly go from position to position. I do though understand that I have to be in (or be going through) certain ideal positions and movements to achieve a decent result. This is after years of not understanding, or in fact misinterpreting, what I read and heard (often from my equally clueless playing partners) about the golf swing. It was not until I learned what the dynamic positions should ideally be, and a better understanding of how I might achieve getting to and through those positions, that the swing made sense. I play better and enjoy myself, because there are certainties to strive for.

I don't think you can just tell a beginner to just slash away and don't think about it. I believe kbp said it right. "This would include body movements and club action, and would be nearly impossible without some study/explanation of basic positions."

Even the pros are constantly looking at their positions. It's a common thing to see someone like Tiger, after they miss a shot, stand back and dissect their swing motion position to position, and what they did wrong and what they had to do properly. So imagine what they will work on at practice and what the coach will tell them about positions, good and bad.

Ted

My initial golf lessons were based on 8 check points and this was a great help to me. The book "The Golf Factory" which teaches the Leslie King method based on check points is also a good primer for the improving golfer. To give a beginner a book like "The Golf Machine" to learn by is IMHO not a good plan.

[rotator]

Re: it's one thing to see it, it's another to do it!

Hi Brian,

I've seen Jim McLean's 8-Steps Swing series and it's an excellent instructional source, and not only for beginners. It was shown on The Golf Channel initially. It's a review of solid basics for experienced players as well.

Gee, I wonder if the 8 steps are the same for both McLean and King?

You know me, I absolutely have to study the principles of GMO, because that's me. I am very analytical about everything, and golf has been one thing, which has always suffered the brunt. It does seem to be very complex.

Ted

[BrianW]

Re: it's one thing to see it, it's another to do it!

Hi Brian,

I've seen Jim McLean's 8-Steps Swing series and it's an excellent instructional source, and not only for beginners. It was shown on The Golf Channel initially. It's a review of solid basics for experienced players as well.

Gee, I wonder if the 8 steps are the same for both McLean and King?

You know me, I absolutely have to study the principles of GMO, because that's me. I am very analytical about everything, and golf has been one thing, which has always suffered the brunt. It does seem to be very complex.

Ted

Ted,

Here is a link to the Leslie King system on a web site. He was teaching way before Harmon , I think we are alike in our fascination with golf.

http://www.golfpro-online.com/tuition/lking/one.html

[rotator]

Re: it's one thing to see it, it's another to do it!

Hi Brian,

I've already been looking at Leslie King's website. It was embedded in Jeff Mann's Perfect Golf Swing review paper.

Ted

[BrianW]

Re: it's one thing to see it, it's another to do it!

Hi Brian,

I've already been looking at Leslie King's website. It was embedded in Jeff Mann's Perfect Golf Swing review paper.

Ted

Ted,

The newer book "The Golf Factory" Is much better illustrated and has a lot more detail of positions in it.