swing related

[golfshooter]

Hi everyone,
I have been working on the technical aspects of my swing lately(having gotten lazy and allowed bad habits to creep in)and have noticed I have been getting a very sore left fore arm. I don't know whether it may that I am now cocking my wrists again, straightening my arm, not straightening my arm, basically I don't have a clue. The only real problem that I can pick out swing wise is coming down to steep with my irons and hitting the ball fat occasionally,and other than that I don't seem to be getting the distance I should be getting. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there another flaw in in my swing that I am not picking up?
Regards,Peter.

[BrianW]

Re: swing related

If you are hitting fat you are probably keeping your weight on your back foot in the downswing, this brings the bottom of your swing arc behind the ball. Make sure the first thing in your downswing transition is to move your weight over to your front foot.

[golfshooter]

Re: swing related

Hi Brian,
I'll give it a try and give you an answer back,thanks.
Regards,Peter

[rotator]

Re: swing related

Hi Peter,

It's difficult to know exactly what your cause is for your problem.

As Brian pointed out a possible reason for your fat shots could be due to weight shift.

You can test this.

When you are making the backswing, do you feel the weight going back on the right foot? Try to raise your left foot off the ground. Is that easy to do, or is it difficult? You don't have to be able to lift it entirely free in the air, but you should be able to tell if the bulk of the weight has been transferred to the back leg.

When you finish your forward swing, can you lift your right foot off the ground? You should be able to, because the weight should be on the left foot, and you should be lightly balanced on the toes of the right foot. You should be able to tap tap the right toes off the ground.

Regards,

Ted

[jbrunk]

Re: swing related

Fats are also caused by flipping. I wonder, could you post up some vid? As Rotator said, it is hard to tell without seeing you.

[rotator]

Re: swing related

Hi Peter,

You specifically mention you are coming down too steep with the irons. That steepness could be by casting or also by coming over the top.

I told you before about the the video in the "Driver woes" thread. If you have the butt end of the club tracing the ball/target line and at the same time if you can retain the lag in the wrists for as long as you can (without forcing the wrists and forearms to be locked and strained), the bottom of the swing will be shallowed out. Basically, you are dropping the arms while the shoulders and upper body are still closed, while the butt end is tracing the line to keep the shaft on plane. Look at the video and then try it a few times.

Ted

[JB1204]

Re: swing related

When you are making the backswing, do you feel the weight going back on the right foot? Try to raise your left foot off the ground. Is that easy to do, or is it difficult? You don't have to be able to lift it entirely free in the air, but you should be able to tell if the bulk of the weight has been transferred to the back leg.

So how do you solve this problem? Do you literally push off with your right foot to begin the downswing? Or do you let the swinging of your arms move you to your left side?

[JB1204]

Re: swing related

Fats are also caused by flipping.

I'm having a huge problem with this. Any tips on how to stop?

[golfshooter]

Re: swing related

Hi Guys,
It seems I am not the only one with this problem. It is enormously frustrating.I just think I have it worked out and here it is again.I am topping my 5 wood and taking a great chunk of soil out before the ball with my irons, both only happening on the fairway.I could reduce my score so significantly if I could only stop this.I have tried videoing it to send but my computer won't read it.I could really use one of those laser sticks like in the link you gave me Ted.I still think I am coming in too steep but am finding it a really hard habit to break. Anyway, I have signed up for a coaching clinic starting Monday and should finally put it to rest and hope my discovery can help others.A bit more practice this afternoon might even turn up something.Don't lose heart fellows, golf is like a rollercoaster with all it's ups and downs.As they say it's still better than the boring merry go round.
Regards, Peter.

[Neil18]

Re: swing related

Basically, you flip to make the clubhead reach the ball. The problems with it are uncontrollable flash speed and a quickly changing angle of the club face. Ally that with a poor turn and weight shift and you'll see every bad shot in the book. Mostly fats and thins. But it's poor body and foot work that make your hands flip it. It's a natural reaction otherwise you may not even hit the ball.

One cardinal sin is getting the weight onto the left side too early in the downswing (fat if you cast, thin slice if you hold it off) but another is keeping the weight of the right side too long in the downswing (fat, fat and more fat, and flipping like a flipper from Flipsville to compensate).

To me it's the hardest part of the swing to master. The impact, the turn and the weight shift onto the front foot will feel like they happen almost completely together, so timing them together on the downswing is key. If one outraces the others, or none of them are together, inconsistency will be your nemesis.

My thoughts on it are pretty simple. Weight goes where club goes. As the club moves infront of you and down, weight begins to shift. There's no sudden movements or jolty stuff. Then when you feel impact is about to occur, step on the gas with your left foot/heel and turn (you must keep turning).

If you get the weight shift and turn right your hands will naturally do what they should to square the club (which is actually not a lot). Marry it up with the right grip for your turn and hey presto, you have a golf swing!

To quote the Meerkat.com; "simples!"

[rotator]

Re: swing related

Peter,

You don't need a laser device. Stick a tee in the hole at the butt end of the grip.

When you address the ball, the tee points at your belly button, As you turn your shoulders, body and arms back and around on the backswing, you keep the tee pointing at your belly button and the head of the club tracing the extended ball/target line. Note that the arms, shoulders and upper torso move back together, so the arms will effectively stay in front of your chest throughout the swing.

When you reach the point when the club is about hip height, the tee and head of the club are not tracing the ball/target line at this point, obviously. The shaft of the club should be horizontal to the ground and over and parallel to your toeline. You should have the appearance of reaching back with the club and handing it back to someone at your side. The toe of the head should be slightly angled to face down from vertical.

For the rest of the backswing, you will lose the tee pointing at your belly button and it will now trace the extended ball/target line, until you reach the top. This will obviously require you to cock your wrists and rotate your arms to accomplish this. Whatever your limit of the backswing, the tee should still point at the extended ball/target line, until you reach (if you are capable of getting there) the shaft horizontal position at the top.

To start the downswing, make that shift of the hips (as Neil says a light bump is adequate). Your wrists are cocked, and unless you are able to get to the horizontal shaft position at the top, the tee will be pointing at the ball/ target line. All you have to do is to keep the tee tracing the ball/target line all the way to the point where the shaft is again at hip height (the mirror opposite of when you made your backswing). Note on the downswing, as previously for the backswing, that the arms, shoulders and upper torso move together, so the arms will effectively stay in front of your chest and are connected to the body rotation. Don't stop rotating the body.
All of this will create the following good things to happen. Your right elbow will have to lead and fall to your shirt seam. The wrists will have to retain the cock and the hands therefore will lead the clubhead into the delivery position (you will not lose lag and you will not cast or flip the club).

From here, the clubhead now traces the extended ball/target line, as the arms and hands continue the forward motion. You will go into impact with the left wrist bowed or flat and your right wrist slightly bent (so you will not be flipping). The clubhead is obviously on the ball/target line at impact, and it will continue to be on it, until you reach the horizontal shaft position at hip height through swing. From here, as your wrists and arms cross over each other and the club goes upwards to the finish, the tee again traces the ball/target line.

You will want to do this in measured slow /stop action until you visualize and feel the effect this tracing has on the swing and what it requires your body parts to be doing. As you get used to this, you can speed the motion up. You can keep the tee in place as you hit balls, as it will make you aware of what it should be doing. Start hitting balls this way by concentrating on the tee and clubhead tracing, but have the ball on a tee, and swing at 1'8th or less speed. You are only interested i the motion, not impact. It will likely feel strange and awkward at first, because previously you have ingrained the wrong motions.

Caution, don't do this as strictly a arms and hands motion. Your other body parts have to be part of the swing in proper sequence. The arms should stay connected to and stay in front of the body. This has been discussed in other threads, and a keyword search for "connected" or "disconnected" should come up with those discussions.

I believe it is important to start the swing at a relaxed rate of speed and build up to the maximum acceleration through and just past the ball. That will resolve a lot of the faults, like casting, losing lag, swinging over the top, and deceleration through impact (because otherwise all the speed would have been expended early). So, when you do this drill you can incorporate this thought into practice.

The beauty of this is it teaches the following: it gives you the proper swing plane throughout the swing, it makes you drop your right elbow into your side, it gives an inside swing, it keeps you from casting and losing wrist cock, it keeps your hands leading the clubhead and stops flipping, it makes your through motion an inward and around on plane swing after impact and not a chicken wing bailout.

Refresh the visual of this by watching the video over and over.

Ted

[rotator]

Re: swing related

So how do you solve this problem? Do you literally push off with your right foot to begin the downswing? Or do you let the swinging of your arms move you to your left side?

Hi jb,

First off, I do not consciously think about shifting my weight. I let my body motions do that.

I set up with the weight about equally distributed. I may rock very slightly forward (it feels like from my core), so perhaps an inklng more weight momentarily shifts to the front. But that is more to get the motor cranking, and to start with a motion. I react from that with the backswing, in which by rotating around my spine, not by a big lateral shift back, I try to get my left shoulder in line with my right foot. I may not get all the way there, but that accomplishes the shifting of the big mass of weight to the back, without thinking about how to make certain body parts react to do that.

Once I'm there, to answer your question, I start the downswing with the lateral bump of the hips forward. That motion alone moves my weight forward, and my shoulders and upper body is still mostly coiled, although the arms and hands may drop slightly on the plane. The right elbow also is encouraged to drop to the shirt seam. From here, the downswing on plane, as described in my post on the tee in the butt end of the grip drill.

Ted

[rotator]

Re: swing related

I've thought about this and have edited my previous post with the following additions, which may otherwise be forgotten and lead to problems.

1) Note on the downswing, as previously for the backswing, that the arms, shoulders and upper torso move together, so the arms will effectively stay in front of your chest and are connected to the body rotation. Don't stop rotating the body.

2) I believe it is important to start the swing at a relaxed rate of speed and build up to the maximum acceleration through and just past the ball. That will resolve a lot of the faults, like casting, losing lag, swinging over the top, and deceleration through impact (because all the speed would have been expended early). So, when you do this drill you can incorporate this thought into practice.

Ted

[golfshooter]

Re: swing related

Hi Guys,
Well it's been a bit of a battle and a journey of discovery. Thanks to you all for your help with this problem of hitting fat on the fairway.Like most things in golf the answer lay in more than one fault in my swing. Firstly I was definitely coming in to steep.There is a fine line between hitting down on the ball and flipping it.The intention is to hit through the ball just before bottoming a nice nice smooth arch. The aha factor was found during the coaching clinic I mentioned I was going to attend.Weight transference. I had somehow gotten into the bad habit of slightly lifting my left heel on my back swing.No matter how often I slowly traced through my swing I was never going to pick it up because it was only happening on coarse during a full blooded swing and I had no idea it was happening.I therefor assume that it made the transference from right to left foot late leading me to continually mistime my shots.I believe that was a common diagnosis in most of your replies so thank you again and I hope my experience helps others.
Regards,Peter.

[Neil18]

Re: swing related

At the risk of unravelling your discoveries, may I be the first to gently advise that the lifting of the left heel is not necessarily a swing killer. Ask Jack Nicklaus, Phil Mickelson and Sam Snead.

It may be a key to your swing to keep your left foot planted, but never stop looking. As you have hinted at, it may be the first discovery of many which (annoyingly enough) may eventually lead you full circle to go back to lifting your left heel because the "problem" was never that in the first place.

Ben Hogan said it himself of his own swing journey. Todays marvellous discovery can be tomorrow dead end, and eventually you can become lost in a labrynth of your own making.

Just thought I'd pop that in as a sidenote, and before anyone else chimed in with the same thing in a not-so gentle manner!

Stupid game.

Your gently

Neil