flipping hands @ impact

[rogue]

Re: flipping hands @ impact

Clampetts book is very good and getting much more the the heart of the problem - IMPACT, although he addresses it in a swing dymanics way which is probably better than a swing style way.

I would say that the order of progression most players should go through for best golf would be the following

1. understand impact - logically, and before picking up a club. One of the biggest faults is a misunderstanding of why the ball does what it does. Why does it curve right? why does it start right? why does it feel like that? what do i have to do to get the ball in the air etc. Unfortunately there are no books on this topic solely and many swing style books barely address it, clampetts book and 3 skills golf come closest.

2. basic fundamentals - this is an edgy one, as you can still get away with poor fundamentals if they suit your swing - but all beginners need at least a template for how to hold and stand to the ball

3. SKILL - develop your ability to control and manipulate the clubhead. Can you hit draw/fade/high/low shots. Can you hit the ground in the right place, can you make your divot point to the target and can you hit the centre of the face etc. In all honesty these things are almost all that matter. Most GREAT players only ever get to this stage and just continue with it.

4. Technique changes - Quite honestly this is where most beginners jump in before they have developed any skill at all, and this stage ALWAYS regresses skill. If you develop skill first - chances are a lot of your technique will be good by most theories. If you jump into here before you do 1,2 and 3 you are sure to fail unless you have a shedload of time and are supremely talented.

5. practice until your body can perform it without thinking - most players never reach this stage, and even if they do, mental demons come in to spoil them keeping in this stage.


This is my own personal opinion but it is based upon my own learning of the game and also how most top tour professionals were made. I believe that too much technique is systematically destroying the game. people should stop searching for that one thing that will make them a good golfer. It doesnt exist, go develop your skill, a tour pro can hit it 250 yards on 1 leg as they have skill

[rotator]

Re: flipping hands @ impact

Clampetts book is very good and getting much more the the heart of the problem - IMPACT, although he addresses it in a swing dymanics way which is probably better than a swing style way.

I would say that the order of progression most players should go through for best golf would be the following

1. understand impact - logically, and before picking up a club. One of the biggest faults is a misunderstanding of why the ball does what it does. Why does it curve right? why does it start right? why does it feel like that? what do i have to do to get the ball in the air etc. Unfortunately there are no books on this topic solely and many swing style books barely address it, clampetts book and 3 skills golf come closest.

2. basic fundamentals - this is an edgy one, as you can still get away with poor fundamentals if they suit your swing - but all beginners need at least a template for how to hold and stand to the ball

3. SKILL - develop your ability to control and manipulate the clubhead. Can you hit draw/fade/high/low shots. Can you hit the ground in the right place, can you make your divot point to the target and can you hit the centre of the face etc. In all honesty these things are almost all that matter. Most GREAT players only ever get to this stage and just continue with it.

4. Technique changes - Quite honestly this is where most beginners jump in before they have developed any skill at all, and this stage ALWAYS regresses skill. If you develop skill first - chances are a lot of your technique will be good by most theories. If you jump into here before you do 1,2 and 3 you are sure to fail unless you have a shedload of time and are supremely talented.

5. practice until your body can perform it without thinking - most players never reach this stage, and even if they do, mental demons come in to spoil them keeping in this stage.


This is my own personal opinion but it is based upon my own learning of the game and also how most top tour professionals were made. I believe that too much technique is systematically destroying the game. people should stop searching for that one thing that will make them a good golfer. It doesnt exist, go develop your skill, a tour pro can hit it 250 yards on 1 leg as they have skill

Well said, rogue.

Ted

[Chuck MacW]

Re: flipping hands @ impact

Rogue

I've just printed out a copy of your learning progression to serve as a reminder for me when I next golf with my 8 year old grandson, which probably won't be until January in Florida.

Your progression is pretty demanding since it requires people to be students of the game very early in their exposure to the game. Nevertheless, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Yours,

Chuck

[rogue]

Re: flipping hands @ impact

thanks guys. appreciated

for adults, we are cursed with intelligence so we tend to jump in at number 4 and try to understand that intellectually first before we understand the first one. Unfortunately most people dont realise that 90% of golfing faults stem from the first 2 (esp number 1). Luckily kids can just hit balls all day and they will subconsciously work out for themselves how to do number 1(if they have number 2 down), although it takes many years (we can speed it up).

Sorry to confuse lol. For an 8 yr old i would recommend the following
1. tell them to hit the tee to get the ball in the air. if they hit the tee forward the ball WILL go in the air. you can do this without a ball at first (line 10 tees up and see how many they hit out of the ground, then place a ball on top of ten more and see their score again. ) do not progress until they can hit the tee 7-8/10

2. tell them about how clubface controlls the ball direction (not true, controls 60-80% of overall direction but they need not know that). let them experiement until they can hit it left and right by changing the clubface

3. tell them how where their body is aimed determines where the ball starts (again not true, its actually swing path through impact but body is a large variable on this)

4. try and get them to intermix the two and see what happens - aim left and clubface right and vice versa. The child will start developing understanding etc.


The list goes on but this should tide you over for a few weeks and keep practice from being boring. you can apply the same to yourself above, but an adult can just read a book on it whereas kids will not learn it through that way.

Just do yourself and the kid one favour. Dont tell them to keep their head down and left arm straight lol.

[arny660]

Re: flipping hands @ impact

Excellent posts, Rogue.

[keiko]

Re: flipping hands @ impact

Those with the longest diatribes are the ones with no information.
Funny how that works.

Excellent posts, Rogue.

[Chuck MacW]

Re: flipping hands @ impact

Those with the longest diatribes are the ones with no information.
Funny how that works.

Who dat? I'm not clear on what you are getting at.

Yours,

Chuck

[arny660]

Re: flipping hands @ impact

Those with the longest diatribes are the ones with no information.
Funny how that works.

Sorry, I`m not sure what you mean?

[kbp]

Re: flipping hands @ impact

I believe keiko is saying that roque has no useful information to share and is unnecessarily long winded to boot. Nice.

[rogue]

Re: flipping hands @ impact

I agree i am unnecessarily long winded. However my advice is golden. Feel free to ad thoughts though, am open to debate

[Chuck MacW]

Re: flipping hands @ impact

I agree i am unnecessarily long winded. However my advice is golden. Feel free to ad thoughts though, am open to debate

Well said, but unduly modest.

Yours,

Chuck

[keiko]

Re: flipping hands @ impact

Maybe I should have you tag along and interpret everything I say but since you are wrong, maybe not.
What I meant was not pointed at anyone in particular just that some folks seem to get long winded when bullet points would do better.
Frankly, I think most find it hard to wade through alot of rhetoric to get at the bottom line.

I believe keiko is saying that roque has no useful information to share and is unnecessarily long winded to boot. Nice.

[rogue]

Re: flipping hands @ impact

I have little time for petty coments.

long informative messages, discussion of different theories, A good debate, I am more than happy to participate in.

I welcome comments - negative or positive - about posts I have made if they encourage debate about a the topic.

Those with the longest diatribes are the ones with no information.
Funny how that works.

however, this I do not see the need for. If you cant be bothered to read my post then skip over it. I just wanted to give chuck a bit more of a structure for his grandson. to me it was as easy as 1,2,3,4

[keiko]

Re: flipping hands @ impact

"I have little time for petty coments."
see my note below. LOL
end of story

]I have little time for petty coments.[/B]
I have little time for posters who are just flagellating themselves with rhetoric and few qualifications to do so.
long informative messages, discussion of different theories, A good debate, I am more than happy to participate in.

I welcome comments - negative or positive - about posts I have made if they encourage debate about a the topic.



however, this I do not see the need for. If you cant be bothered to read my post then skip over it. I just wanted to give chuck a bit more of a structure for his grandson. to me it was as easy as 1,2,3,4

[rogue]

Re: flipping hands @ impact

I can assure you that my qualifications in this field are numerous.
If they weren't then I wouldnt post with such conviction.