Just had a lesson and now disillusioned...

[bphillips]

Re: Just had a lesson and now disillusioned...

Hey jbrunk, what I was saying is that the golf swing has been changing through the years and we are getting more into lower body stability than we did in the past. We are seeing a lot of information on rotation of the arms and reducing the rotation of the lower and upper body in the golf swing Tiger has calmed his lower body down a notch due to his knee injury, and I think it has helped his overall swing mechanics. bp

[SurlyScarab]

Re: Just had a lesson and now disillusioned...

Well Ken, I just dropped by to say that I now feel your pain. I went and got a lesson this past Friday and found out that my swing needed a lot of work. Apparently, I was far to armsy (new word!) and didn't use my body rotation enough. Well, I am now rotating like a dradle holding a club but can't hit the ball worth squat. I feel like I just started playing golf yesterday. FRUSTRATING!! Man I hope I get this right some time before winter

[ilang]

Re: Just had a lesson and now disillusioned...

No one ever became a good golfer without hitting thousand's of golf balls.But you must understand the basic fundamentals of the game.Give a high handicapper an axe to chop a tree down and he will look more like a golfer than he ever has.
This is because you have to turn away from the trunk and instinctively start your downswing with your legs.
The best lesson I ever had...hit the ball with the handle of the club and generate the power with your legs....the club-head does not exist.

I'm still playing off single figure handicap at 68 years old...and think of that lesson every time I play.

Good luck.

[SurlyScarab]

Re: Just had a lesson and now disillusioned...

Can anyone else touch on how to tell if you should stick with what you've been taught or if you should find a new Pro?

When I took my lesson I thought I was seeing improvement because the new swing 'felt good' and the Pro was saying I was looking better. Now that I think of it, though, I'm not sure he could have actually known how I was really hitting. I was indoors and hitting into a net. Once I got out onto a range I was hitting ALL over the place including a super-slice that I'd never seen before...

Full disclosure, I've only been able to hit about 200 balls since then due to annoying circumstances. So, I understand that I'll need to put a lot more work in. That is fine with me but I don't want to keep working on something with no indication that I'm doing the right thing. I haven't been able to hit one ball decently at all.

[Ken Waterstock]

Re: Just had a lesson and now disillusioned...

Hi all.

I thought I'd just post an update.

It's been 6 weeks or so since I was advised by my pro' to change my grip to a very weak one from quite a strong one. Although the new grip was feeling OK, my game had not improved at all.. I was slicing most irons, and my driving was all over the place.

A week ago, I decided to strengthen my grip slightly, closer to how it was originally, and WOW ! Everything just clicked. It felt good again, most shots instantly started going straight and long (for me) , and I am really enjoying the game again, and a lot of the previous frustration has gone.

Now, what do I do ? Do I stick with my current grip, or go back to the pro', knowing he will try and persuade me to persist in using the new weaker grip. He is the pro', and I'm sure he knows what he is doing. I have seen many tour players using a very strong grip, much stronger than mine, and they obviously find it fine though.

Any comments would be welcome.

As I mentioned before, I've only been playing for just under 2 years, and I am only a very average player (I currently play of 18) so I obviously don't have any of the experience of a pro'.

Ken

[rotator]

Re: Just had a lesson and now disillusioned...

Hi Ken,

Firstly, I played with a very strong grip for years.

In my case, it started because my fingers are quite short (for instance, my baby finger is only about one and one half inches). Before I got into installing my own grips and finding ones that are slimmer, and also which I could stretch, the standard off the rack clubs had, for me, grips which I could not feel secure with. I fiddled with my grip, so I could feel it was secure, which happened to be the stronger grip, so that is how I played. As you may know, it's for the same reason, it is recommended that children and other golfers with small or weak hands use a stronger grip.

It may well be that the stronger grip I used was also to eliminate the slice I had when I started playing.

These are no longer factors, as I custom fit my grips and have learned the proper way to swing. I used to take that extreme strong grip and take an all body swipe at the ball. I would be wracked with pain after the game and all night, particularly in the hands and elbows, but all over.

A very good pro suggested I weaken the grip somewhat, and I did not have much problem in making the change. It helped my release and my ball flight, allowing me to use the arms and hands better and also giving me a higher trajectory. I changed from a bomber to a swinger. It's just as well, as I got older.

Here's some thoughts. There are different styles of golf swings. You could be vertical, flat, handsey, rotary (including one-plane), etc. There are hybrid swings, such as Couples, who has a very strong grip, but cups his wrists to open the face, and the drop in loop. It seems to me that generally a very strong grip goes with a more rotary type swing, whereas that type of swing would be less effective with a weak grip. It may be that certain pros are not rotary (body squaring the clubface) orientated in their teachings.

I guess what I'm saying is we all have different swings. We also make choices in what grips we feel comfortable with, and other choices. In both cases, there are pluses and minuses. So does Azinger change from his motorcycle grip and his hip rotation, so he could get a higher ball flight? In my case with the strong grip, I was getting very locked up in my release and had low trajectory on approach shots. It was a change for me, after decades of having a strong grip, but the pro in this case was right.

Ted

[Ken Waterstock]

Re: Just had a lesson and now disillusioned...

Hi Ted, and thanks for that.

Even with my strong grip, I get a lovely regular high trajectory, and everything just seems natural to me.

Using the new grip even after 6 weeks of playing or practicing in the driving 5 or 6 times a week, I was still spraying the ball all over the place, so this is why I reverted back (or close) to my previous grip.

I suppose what I need/want to know is can my strong grip prevent me from reaching my full potential ?

Ken

[rotator]

Re: Just had a lesson and now disillusioned...

Hi Ken,

You may find the following thread link interesting.

The number of successful good pro and amateur players, who play with either strong or weak, I would guess, is about the same, i.e. there is not an overwhelming majority of either. So, it seems one can use either and play well.

As an example, Ben Hogan started out with a strong grip, and he had a nasty duck hook. He weakened his grip, and along with other changes in his swing, he became a fader. I believe Bobby Jones had what would be considered a strong grip. Would Azinger have been a better golfer, if he changed to a more traditional swing? Keep in mind, he was apparently a double digit handicapper, when he was scuffling about in college (was that before he came across his swing coach John Redman?). Read some of the reviewers' comments on this webpage, about the strong grip and the swing style..John Redmans Essentials Of The Golf Swing: Amazon.ca: Paul Azinger, John Redman: Books.

As discussed in the thread, there are opinions regarding the type of golf swing determining what grip is more compatible, or not, which point I speculated on earlier.

Obviously, there are divergent opinions about this subject. Some are by knowledgeable professional instructors and others are fly by the seat own opinions, based on their personal experiences.

I suppose you have to sort out what works for you.

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/lofive...php/t4716.html

Ted

[rogue]

Re: Just had a lesson and now disillusioned...

Hi Ted, and thanks for that.

Even with my strong grip, I get a lovely regular high trajectory, and everything just seems natural to me.

I suppose what I need/want to know is can my strong grip prevent me from reaching my full potential ?

Ken

Did its stop Azinger, Duval, JB Holmes, Darren Clarke etc etc?

Sounds like you went to a bad pro mate. Maybe he was more interested in getting ur grip to look pretty instead of performing. Leave the pretty things to the girls, men like to get things done and there is more than one way to do that.

Go to a coach next time not a teacher. A coach will give you a grip that performs for you. Bottom line is - was the grip causing you the problems? if u hit it better with ur old grip, stick with it.

[dagosa]

Re: Just had a lesson and now disillusioned...

Golf can be frustrating if you let it. But advice by people here is right on, even if they seem to disagree. I really feel as you progress through your goal to improve yourself, you will continually look at things differently, even when you are playing well. Even pros have areas of disagreement that can lead to confusion when we use them as models. The key I feel, is to find those few basics that all the best players have in common, and use that as your foundation. Not an easy task but, from there, you're free to choose instructors that help you, being careful to be skeptical of those whose advice is contrary to these basics.
Just another piece of free advice and worth every penny.
Good Luck to you.

[rogue]

Re: Just had a lesson and now disillusioned...

well said dagosa

[miffin]

Re: Just had a lesson and now disillusioned...

Hi Ted, and thanks for that.

Even with my strong grip, I get a lovely regular high trajectory, and everything just seems natural to me.

Using the new grip even after 6 weeks of playing or practicing in the driving 5 or 6 times a week, I was still spraying the ball all over the place, so this is why I reverted back (or close) to my previous grip.

I suppose what I need/want to know is can my strong grip prevent me from reaching my full potential ?

Ken

I can completely understand this. I had a lesson with a young pro who immediately changed my grip. I found out later that there was no need for this at all. He cost me about 2 years golf. It took me that long to get over it. If it was not for help from members of this site I would have given the game in.
Bri

[StephenM]

Re: Just had a lesson and now disillusioned...

Ken,,,,,all is not lost. Your pro knows what he is doing. The grip change you have is just like if you crossed your arms one way and then learn to cross them another way, it feels uncomfortable. But remember, the old habit was just comfortable. Practicing and learning the right basic way will quickly improve your game with rewards. Learning to practice the right way, will not reinforce bad habits, which is harder to correct and your game will be harder to improve.

[mconn]

Re: Just had a lesson and now disillusioned...

I hear you. I'm constantly reminded by a golf buddy, an excellent player; that every time you're tempted to make a major change in your swing, forget about scoring well for that year. Obviously it varies with the change and is never so dramatic, but it does indicate the slippage that occurs with every new skill development. Exceptions would be habits that are so contrary to any good ball striking, that any reasonable change would show immediate improvement. Hang in there !
Besides, if the swing was taught in the same way by all instructors, few could make a living doing it. Fortunately, it's a free enterprising system, and many try to "sell" a new and improved way. Approach every change with a little skepticism, go slowly, and you the consumer/player can always benefit.

[mconn]

Re: Just had a lesson and now disillusioned...

Learn to embrace frustration if your goal is to "master" this sport. I try to always improve, but try to enjoy the moment and the level of ability or inability I'm in at the time. We need also recognize that improvement will come slowly or not all at some point.During that time, enjoy the companionship and the walk as well.
Regards.