Correct downswing sequence

[Chris]

On the downswing are you supposed to start by shifting your weight to the left side (for a right hander) and turning your hips before everything else? If I turn my hips to start the downswing I feel like at impact I get stuck and my club is open. What am I doing wrong?

[pgmetcalf]

Re: Correct downswing sequence

The golf swing starts with the lower body turning left of the target whilst trying to leave the club at the top of the swing - that's how I see it. Getting in to this position is probably the most tricky thing in golf and I suspect the correct action feels different from golfer to golfer.

Golfbald talks about the Z position with the right heel coming off the ground to initiate the downswing. This feels a little strange to me because your weight is loaded on the right leg at the top of the swing, so it would seem difficult to do with so much weight on the leg.

I personally turn my left knee to the left of the target line whilst keep the rest of the body as still as possible. The knee pulls the hips around, which then pulls the shoulders, then arms and hands and finally the club.

An important thing to realise is that you just don't turn through the ball. In golf the body turns around a fixed axis while the arms move up and down. I saw a David Leadbeater class on video where he was explaining to Ian Woosnam about the distance between the shoulder and the arm (Late Hitting) He said the space between the shoulder and the right wrist, from the top position, should be the same until near impact. Try this exercise:

Swing to the top and stop

Have a friend grip the clubhead to stop it from moving

Turn your body towards and left of the target line

You might have to try this a couple of times to get the feeling. If you turn correctly you should feel your right shoulder drop way down at the start of the downswing. This position makes it easier to maintain the angle between the arm and the shoulder too.

[Ian Hancock]

Re: Correct downswing sequence

Spot on Paul,

I have been working on this with my pro and it is working for me.

He makes me move my lower body first then lets go of the club and makes me hit the ball, takes a few to get the feeling but it realy works.

Cheers

Ian.

[pgmetcalf]

Re: Correct downswing sequence

Yeah Ian I still do it about once a week too. It's a strange feeling when you swing correctly and I've noticed that when I do the weekly exercise with my friend it feels like a new swing. This is because I think my swing kinda gets a bit armsy after a while; remember the top pros have continual lessons too to try and stop bad habits from creeping in. In find my swing trainer (or a weighted club) helps me improve my lower body action too.

[vectorinvestor]

Re: Correct downswing sequence

Lately I've been starting my downswing by feeling a sensation of my arms "dropping" in front of my chest then accelerating the club, its worked out real well in the aspect that I feel I have an effortless swing and hitting the ball square with no problems with slices or hooks. The only concern is that I suffer on distance. My 6 iron will only go 135 yards. "I've read on some sites and books the average 40 year old male should hit a 7 iron 140 yards". I started to wonder if I should try something else to get more distance. I'm going to try to turn my lower body first and let the club lag and see what happens.

Just curious if any of you all have the same sensations of letting gravity pull down your club to start you swing? If so do you guys have a problem with distance?

FWIW... I'm new to golf so any tips on this matter are well apprectiated.

[Ian Hancock]

Re: Correct downswing sequence

Vector,

Whenever you are working on a change you will lose some distance. This is due to a bit of tention you create when you are trying to manipulate your body into a change during the backswing and followthrough.

Stick with it and when you start to feel the change naturally the distance will start to come, usually all at once.

Thats how it goes for me anyway.

Ian.

[pgmetcalf]

Re: Correct downswing sequence

Yeah what Ian says ... what you are doing is swinging in a new way so your are really learning to play again. I find that if I lost distance it was usually because the distance between the ball and my toes, at address, has grown. I think the nearer you can stand to the ball the more the arms drop down instead of around the shoulders; swing around whilst it feels powerful is really counter-productive in golf. If you change your swing it will be probable that you have to change to address too.

[gord962]

Re: Correct downswing sequence

Great point guys - I would also like to add that although it is a very slight change, there is slightly different muscles being used. Once you have practiced the new swing to the point where you do not have to think about it, the particular muscles are now strengthened and the shots will go farther.

[Mr_Change]

Re: Correct downswing sequence

I used to let my arms drop before I turned my body and only hit my 7 iron about 130 yards. Today I transfer my weight to the left by pushing my right foot into the ground and driving my right knee towards the target, I also straighten my left leg almost to a fully straiten postion, this helps me to turn my hips really fast. This clears my hips and allows me to unwind my right side along the correct swing path. I now hit my 7 iron 160 yards. I hit my driver around 265 yards. where before a 220 yard drive was a big drive for me. I have also dropped about 8 strokes off my game.

[pgmetcalf]

Re: Correct downswing sequence

How do you oush your right foot into the ground if most of your weight is on it anyway?

[gord962]

Re: Correct downswing sequence

I believe Mr. Change is saying he pushes off with his right foot to transfer his weight to his left side. You couldn't push off if your wieght wasn't on that foot already.

[LowPost42]

Re: Correct downswing sequence

I've been playing with that change lately, too (driving the right knee towards the target to start the turn), leaving a pretty much dead-arms swing, with pretty good results. The swing feels powerful, (I can really feeling the torquing through the hips and abs), and I don't feel like I'm trying to hit the ball anymore (arms and hands no longer function in the swing, really - the good hip turn turns the shoulders, the arms drop naturally, and the ball goes bye-bye). It's certainly the best my swing has felt - ever. I'll go next week and check it with my CPGA pro.

[seb75]

Re: Correct downswing sequence

Hi guys,


Until this winter I was swinging just like most of you described it. My point of reference was my left knee. It felt like I was trowing my left knee at the target. Then followed my hips, my shoulders, my hands and finally the club head. I took some lessons this winter with a CPGA pro and he just destroyed the mental image I had of my swing. He actually told that my hands should be the first moving part. That you should move your hands first so that they get back in line with your target. Then the rest of the body should follow the typical order we have been talking about.

The first 25 swings were a disaster. I was hitting the ground 12 to 18 inches before the ball... and I'm not a bad golfer(nor I'm I a great one!). It took awhile and I did lose about 5 yards on my irons but I am a lot more accurate. My question is has anyone heard this tip or even felt like this while swinging?

[Mr_Change]

Re: Correct downswing sequence

I was told you need to start your backswing with your hands, and your shoulders should rotate with them to keep your club on the swing plane in your takeaway.

I find at the takeaway position my hands are as far away from my right hip as i can have them without streching my arms out. My club is about hip high running paraelle to the ground while at the same time it is paraelle with my target line on a line in front of my toes.

At this same position my shoulders have turned around 45% and my hips are still square to the target line, I feel at streching at the back of my right hip where my shoulders have coiled against my hips. I can feel more weight on the inside of my right foot at this point.

From this position I have the feeling of bending my right elbow to a 90% in a L shape, my shoulders have turn to about 90% and my hips rotate only because they are pulled by the coiling against my shoulders and they turn to around 45%. As I complete my backswing I feel the weight on the inside of my foot increase like my foot is being pushed into the ground with resistance.

I use the resistance generated by my weight on the inside of my foot to drive my knee towards the target. This transfers my weight to my left side with a sway into my left pivot position, I straighten my left leg to stop the sway and create a rotation with my hips. I have a feeling with my left arm that I am pulling my clubs down to my halfway position.

At the halfway down postion my hips are open to the target line and my shoulders are still slightly closed. I have maintained my right arm 90% position and my club is around hip high paraelle to the ground and parraelle to the target very similar to my takeaway position but with my right arm closer to my body. also at this position I have still maintained the streching feeling of my hips against my shoulders.

If everything has gone correctly to this point I can release both the coil and the right arm to generate power through the impact position while maintain the correct swing path.

[gord962]

Re: Correct downswing sequence

That sounds pretty good, but take the sway out. Your left hip should be the hinge point, or pivot point that never moves - a gate post. If you sway, you are taking your weight over your right knee, which gets you too far behind your ball causing fat/chunk shots.