Revolutionary Thought?

[LowPost42]

On a long car ride back from a concert, my wife and I were discussing the differences between potential and kinetic energy (it's a bit of a story how we got there). Anyway, we started discussing kinetic energy and how it relates to the golf swing - and it ended up in a revolutionary thought from a purely physics point of view:

"The backswing has no bearing on your ability to hit the ball with any force."

Translated, the backswing adds no power to your swing - therefore there's no need to have a quick takeaway. On top of this, we hypothesized that the backswing often compounded problems - leading to a poor 'top' position (ready to start the downswing), and recognizing that if your starting position is wrong, you need to compensate on the way down.

So, predicating on the knowledge that the backswing has no bearing on my ability to hit the ball, I headed into the backyard after getting home to put theory into practice (and I thought Jim Furyk had a weird looking swing). After addressing the ball (to get the proper angles for my hips, knees, etc), I purposefully bent my elbows to move my club away. While keeping my hips on the same plane, I set them up first. Then, I rotated my shoulders to as close to 90 as I can get, and adjusted my arms into place - putting myself into my 'picture perfect' backswing finish position - hips at 45, shoulders at 90, club shaft parallel to the ground.

Once I was convinced I was in great position at the 'top', I swung the club. I ended up with 34 great contact swings (one swing totally missed - the first one, and the 2nd swing was topped due to 'standing up' over the back leg). After the first dozen swings, I was concerned - every shot had great trajectory, but was drawn. The problem? Intentionally closing the clubface (which has been a compensation of mine). A dozen more swings with a square clubface produced straight flight paths - no deviation. A third dozen was taken with two different clubs (I used a PW, 8i and 4i).

It was unbelievable - I could take aim at anything, and be literally +/- 6" off target (I realize that short flight practice balls aren't going to exaggerate problems) but I figure that this has got to make even full flight shots much more on target.

Next on the checklist is to see if this theory applies with my woods (which I slice regardless of wood)... then on to the golf course to see if I can reproduce. (And report my findings).

This brings me to my thought: Is there a point to having a backswing if one can put themselves into a top position without it? (ie is there a benefit to using a backswing that we failed to look at in the car?)

[the garboligist]

Re: Revolutionary Thought?

How far was this concert??????? Any way the backswing in my case is a hindrance, I tend to be far to quick like I am hitting tennis ball .

I have found that if I take the club back to only about 2 thirds of a normal full backswing and pause for a second or so I hit the ball much better.

I am having lessons at the moment and suffer from the dreaded "slice" with my driver only. My pro gave me a small drill which works wonders.

Stand as you would normally address the ball with ball 2" inside left foot.

Now step back with right foot only so that you are standing at 45 degrees to the direction line.

Now make shore your feet are parallel and pause at top of backswing. You will now have a slight hook. Do a few swings like this and then gradually bring your right foot back to the correct possition.

The pause at the top of backswing helps, proving that there is no need for continuous movement.

Maybe you have a point in what you say.

[greghutton]

Re: Revolutionary Thought?

Hi Ben,

An interesting point. I have used this starting the swing from the top of the backswing position as a drill for a few students who were struggling with severe out to in swings. As you said it is a really simple idea, and one I think everyone should try in practice. It helps develop balance and weight transference in the followthrough as well as giving confidence in a good top of the backswing position. I found that it generates a lot straighter shots, once our bad compensating movements have been eliminated. However, I would not recommend starting the downswing from a totally static position at the top of the backswing. There is a noticable amount of power lost in hitting a shot this way, mainly due to the lack of natural uncoiling of our upper and lower body built up during the backswing. A lot of the coiling in the backswing is lost when we perform it statically by placing the club in the correct top of the backswing position, thus resulting in a slightly less powerfull shot. The flexing of the clubshaft also needs to be taken into consideration. This flexing naturally occurs during the transition of the backswing and downswing and is then released through the ball. If we begin our swing from the top of the backswing position we are generating only a fraction of the shaft flex that would have been created with the traditional method.

In defence of your ideas, I feel that it can be used as a drill with excellent results and can help us learn that we do not need a 'fast as you can backswing' to achieve a good shot. In fact what this goes to prove is that, the more controlled our swing is the more likely we are able to control the flight of the golf ball.

Hope these thoughts help.

[Rich8P]

Re: Revolutionary Thought?

Before commenting, I must point out that I've only been Golfing for a couple of weeks but I have a fair bit of physics, engineering and biomechanics.


The statement that the club has only potential energy at the point where it changes direction at the top of the swing is correct. All energy at this point is potential and proportional to the mass of the club multiplied by the height. But you might need to take into account that the body needs some time to build up force on the club. If you start at the top of the swing, you will be accelerating the club while building up force. If you have a backswing, you will be building up force while still decelerating the club. So with backswing, you will get more force and therefore more accelleration on the club (assuming that there is no phenomenon like a terminal velocity where the wind resistance on the club is equal to your maximum strength).

Theoretically, it is also easier to follow the line back down that you took on the way up because the stabalising muscles are already in place for the swing.

However, my own experiences of golf seem to point to every attempt to put force behind the ball or use muscles seem to lead to disaster so if you seem to have something that works in practice then great. I'll give it a try.

[LowPost42]

Re: Revolutionary Thought?

Thanks Rich - that's kind of the answer I was looking for. So, from a biomechanical point of view, there is more energy available when using a backswing.

[Rich8P]

Re: Revolutionary Thought?

After a little more though and looking at some videos (as I said before my own golf is very amateur), I'm beginning to think that my interpretation of the back swing to build up force is not completly watertight.

In the backward position shown in the diagram in the tutorial on this site the club is almost parellel to the ground and the body is quite twisted. I would guess that the effect of extra force available through momentum change is quite small compared to that of the body twist and drive. If that is the case, my argument doesn't hold and the only benefits to a good backswing seem to be the psychological benefit of retracing your back swing on the forward swing.

To test the theory you'd really need to test with muscle force measuring devices attached to a pro or to his club. Perhaps a carefull analysis of a video would show at what part of the swing the muscles are tensed for the forward swing. Does anyone have a good video of a textbook swing?

[Mr_Change]

Re: Revolutionary Thought?

I once read in a report that some pga coaches are getting people to start the swing from the takeaway position. taking area the takeaway errors people have. They said they started them from the takeaway postion because of the loss of the power generated by the flex in the club at the transmission stage.