Ball position

[nilitara]

Hi guys

I've just got a handicap of 28, but I feel I need to improve my iron play, to achieve my goal of becoming a 20 handicapper within a year!!, I feel my weakness is my iron play.

My confusion is a lot to do with ball position, I realise that it's probably down to an individual preference, but should I be playing everything off the inside of my left heel, like the great Jack Nicklaus advocates, or move my ball position according to what iron I'm using?

To be honest, I do have a lot better results playing everything from the inside of my left heel, but sometimes I think, doing this, I'm picking the ball off the turf, rather than hitting a decending downward strike. This also results in me, not taking a divot on every shot, is this a bad thing.

Any help or advice would be most welcome,

Nige

[BrianW]

Re: Ball position

The attached article gives my view of this:

http://www.golf-tuition-online.com/c...lace-ball.html

[Wil]

Re: Ball position

Good post, good reply!
Jack wasn't an advocate of divots and regarded them as a waste of his energy ('Golf My Way').
Sure have been a lot of good posts here the past few days! ...Wil

[keiko]

Re: Ball position

Tom Watson was/is a "picker" meaning he picks the ball clean with little or no divot. The shorter the club the more divot one tends to take although I rarely take much of a divot no matter what club I am hitting. I hit the ball first and Jack was right when he said divots are a waste of effort because the ball is already gone and it doesn't matter.

Good post, good reply!
Jack wasn't an advocate of divots and regarded them as a waste of his energy ('Golf My Way').
Sure have been a lot of good posts here the past few days! ...Wil

[dagosa]

Re: Ball position

Tom Watson was/is a "picker" meaning he picks the ball clean with little or no divot. The shorter the club the more divot one tends to take although I rarely take much of a divot no matter what club I am hitting. I hit the ball first and Jack was right when he said divots are a waste of effort because the ball is already gone and it doesn't matter.

Hitting the ball first, I agree is of primary importance for obvious reason. What's obvious to me also, that given the standard club and it's hitting area above the sole, it's impossible for me to eliminating catching grass between club head and ball and still make solid contact w/o taking a substantial divot. No divot equals wasted energy. A pro's idea of "picking the ball" means they're not ripping up 4 inches of sod, but still taking a substantial smaller divot. The iron is a sod ripping machine designed to extract a round ball nestled in the sometimes deep grass. IMO,You ain't getting under it without energy loss..no way no how unless you descend substantially into the turf beyond. Now if you want to sustain the picking mentality and go to a longer club, that's your choice.
Regards.

[Wil]

Re: Ball position

Guess it depends whether the ball is sitting up on 1 inch of thick, lush grass or lying down on trampled, muddy dirt.
Best regards...Wil

[keiko]

Re: Ball position

very funny

Hitting the ball first, I agree is of primary importance for obvious reason. What's obvious to me also, that given the standard club and it's hitting area above the sole, it's impossible for me to eliminating catching grass between club head and ball and still make solid contact w/o taking a substantial divot. No divot equals wasted energy. A pro's idea of "picking the ball" means they're not ripping up 4 inches of sod, but still taking a substantial smaller divot. The iron is a sod ripping machine designed to extract a round ball nestled in the sometimes deep grass. IMO,You ain't getting under it without energy loss..no way no how unless you descend substantially into the turf beyond. Now if you want to sustain the picking mentality and go to a longer club, that's your choice.
Regards.

[bdbl]

Re: Ball position

very funny

And typically arrogant, sarcastic, dogmatic, disrespectful and dismissive of other's opinions.

[dagosa]

Re: Ball position

very funny

Without trying to be funny, I was serious, club technology does go a long way with hybrid technology extending into the mid irons and lower, to allow such practices. I can see that. Personally I don't think it's a coincidence that Tom Watson shills for Adams whose clubs for amateurs promote such an approach, and our differences could lie as much in the clubs we use as the philosophy we have. IMO Jack was not divot less, just relatively less so.

[Wil]

Re: Ball position

And typically arrogant, sarcastic, dogmatic, disrespectful and dismissive of other's opinions.

C'mon now! All some of us are saying is if you play your ball position more forward, like Jack does (on every shot), you'll take less divot with your irons- and especially on thick grass.
Divots make a mess of the course and if there's rocky gravel under the grass, like on my course, it ruins your irons. Some of us are 'pickers' and others are not. Both ways seem to work. I've noticed hitting down on the ball and taking a divot does give you more distance as well as a nice trajectory. To each his own-no disrespect intended...Wil

[keiko]

Re: Ball position

First of all, grow up.
Second, good players allow the club to do the work, no need to take big divots and if one does, one is scooping, chunking or not hitting the ball first.

And typically arrogant, sarcastic, dogmatic, disrespectful and dismissive of other's opinions.

[rogue]

Re: Ball position

First of all, grow up.
Second, good players allow the club to do the work, no need to take big divots and if one does, one is scooping, chunking or not hitting the ball first.

ive yet to meet a tour player or low handicapper who doesnt take a divot with an iron. All good players hit ball first, then divot with the centre of the divot being roughly 4 inches ahead of the ball, varying with different clubs. Sure you dont have to take a divot, each to their own, but you will struggle to be a top class player if you dont hit the ground to some degree. a tour player launches almost every club on a 16-20 degree launch angle, this is enabled with the higher lofted clubs by the FACT they hit down on the ball, compressing it giving it more spin and a lower initial launch angle.

rule
divot behind ball = bad
divot in front of ball = good
divot depth = up to you

[dagosa]

Re: Ball position

There are no absolutes in a good golf shot, just general statements with lots of exceptions. so here goes. Obviously the lie has much to do with the divot as does the club construction. But as a general statement, standard irons are a divot making apparatus, hopefully used with discretion.
Playing the ball well forward as many do, is done, not to refrain from collecting divots, but to square face. And, "reading" the divot is an excellent way of getting feed back on your contact.

The best strikers I play with, consistently take fairly aggressive divots, the worse, in general, try to be pickers with the all too frequent "fatty". Let me add that these good strikers are fastidious about course repair as well, the pickers when failing to, less so.

[bdbl]

Re: Ball position

First of all, grow up.

Gosh, after your "very funny" response to Dagosa's thoughtful post another Wildean contribution to the debate.

I thought my description of your overall behaviour and participation in the forum was pretty accurate and I guess you've just proved me right.

[rogue]

Re: Ball position

There are no absolutes in a good golf shot, just general statements with lots of exceptions. so here goes. Obviously the lie has much to do with the divot as does the club construction. But as a general statement, standard irons are a divot making apparatus, hopefully used with discretion.
Playing the ball well forward as many do, is done, not to refrain from collecting divots, but to square face. And, "reading" the divot is an excellent way of getting feed back on your contact.

The best strikers I play with, consistently take fairly aggressive divots, the worse, in general, try to be pickers with the all too frequent "fatty". Let me add that these good strikers are fastidious about course repair as well, the pickers when failing to, less so.

good comments dagosa. i would add that for the majority of players, playing the ball further forward does several things

• has a tendancy to close the face
• has a tendancy to make swing path more left through impact
• has tendancy to increase dynamic loft thus increasing launch angle
• has tendancy to shallow out angle of attack hence shallower divots and higher launch angle and less backspin

the reverse is true for moving the ball back, and all of these can be used to a players advantage when they are learned in these factors