? Flipper

[hesperis123]

Hi All

Need some advice please.
Love the game, played regularly of 14 and all was well....except I wanted to get better. Driving was good (250 yrds) but irons were average (often did not take divot etc)
My swing is based very much around the David Blair/Simon Holmes active wrist and hands which I have found to be successful and very understandable

So, booked in for a series of lessons with my local pro -- he said I was a "flipper" and said if I wanted to improve needed to change from the "David Blair" type swing. He showed me a video by Brian Manzella called "Confessions of a former flipper" which seemed to reinforce his point.
He got me to use my body to square up the clubface with minimal wrist and hand movement; much more body rotation -- showed me lots of videos of the top players on the GASP system next to my swing etc etc
So I changed...now can't hit a barn door from 2 feet and am shanking everything.
Very tempted to go back to my "wristy/handsy" swing -- does the David Blair type swing classify as flipping ....and if so is it that bad.

Am really confused :-(

[Adjani]

Re: ? Flipper

Dump him as your coach!

Stay with YOUR swing, theres nothing wrong with being "wristy" as long as you dont flip at impact.

Get yourself Bobby Clampett`s book "The impact Zone" and work on your impact dynamics.

[BrianW]

Re: ? Flipper

Wrist flipping is normally associated with collapsing the left wrist through impact, David Blair does not promote this, he promotes a fluid release of the wrists which is completely different.

For what it's worth I think David Blair is an exceptionally talented coach and his method of maintaining the long triangle with the arms and chest, allowing the wrists to stay loose and rotate from open to closed along with a full body turn is absolutely the correct way to strike a golf ball.

[ben hogan]

Re: ? Flipper

Here's one of Manzella's friends explaining flipping and using your

pivot to eliminate it. Struggling cause your swing is out of sequence.

Lucky to have found someone that pointed it out from the start...





http://www.youtube.com/user/cmarting.../2/yWIqOWe0JZ8

[rogue]

Re: ? Flipper

There is a diffference between flipping and a correct release. Basically, the correct release would put the shaft leaning toward the target at impact (although this is relative to swing path)

There is more that one type of release though. Although most players are very rotational, there are some players who it does not suit at all for anatomical reasons. Duval, Azinger and others were more closed to open players with an underhand release. Whilst this is generally associated with a loss of distance it can also be a very reliable and accurate method.

My advice is to find your own way of doing it. Sure try out several other theories but you have to build a swing around your game, what do you want - distance, accuracy, consistency etc. Just make sure you didnt misunderstand your pro, im sure he was very good. although you feel like you are doing a blair release your pro could have spotted that you are flicking at the ball maybe

[BrianW]

Re: ? Flipper

If you follow what David Blair teaches you will be on the right track.

This video of his showing wrist movement is very good and easy to follow:

[hesperis]

Re: ? Flipper

Many thanks to all who have taken the time to reply; much appreciated.
It seems that ultimately there is no "correct" swing for everyone and that there are several ways of achieving the desired goal.
I guess the issue for anyone taking, or indeed giving lessons, is to work out what works for the golfer in question -- whether this is a more arm/wrist dominated approach (as per David Blair/Simon Holmes) or a more body pivot related motion.

I must mention the link posted by Brian in a previous thread on flipping; this for me is the clearest description I have ever read on the issue -- and believe me I have read a lot (perhaps too much :-). Best explanantion of the required ovements and in particular very good on the concept of supination of the left forearm and wrist

http://www.aroundhawaii.com/lifestyl...chieve_it.html

[mconn]

Re: ? Flipper

David Blair's presentation, is I don't think, out of the ordinary. His demonstration swings do look "wristy" but his swing in execution in slow mo appears very traditional and stable to the point of impact. He has a flat left wrist and very deliberate hand action through contact with great weight distribution. IMO, it doesn't matter as much how you generate the correct club path, as long as you do.

When you first look at his demonstrations and try to emulate his motions, you will over do the rotation and collapse the left wrist. If instead, you slow down his actual swing when striking a ball, and emulate that, it's easier to see why he has the time for his weight to move forward and keep his hands in front at impact.

If this distinction isn't picked up by a teaching pro he really hasn't taken the time I feel. David's is a well executed swing thought that could work for many, but needs to be taken in this context. His simplification of swing in parts can help many, but only if they are willing to integrate it with the correct club path and correct timing in sequencing these parts.
I'm a "body" swinger, but see little difference in my swing when recorded vs. friends who consider themselves more "handsy".

The difference I feel for many, is all in our heads in the form of thoughts that work for each individual in trying to achieve a repetitive swing that works for us. In this context, David's thoughts work !

[rogue]

Re: ? Flipper

David Blair's presentation, is I don't think, out of the ordinary. His demonstration swings do look "wristy" but his swing in execution in slow mo appears very traditional and stable to the point of impact. He has a flat left wrist and very deliberate hand action through contact with great weight distribution. IMO, it doesn't matter as much how you generate the correct club path, as long as you do.

When you first look at his demonstrations and try to emulate his motions, you will over do the rotation and collapse the left wrist. If instead, you slow down his actual swing when striking a ball, and emulate that, it's easier to see why he has the time for his weight to move forward and keep his hands in front at impact.

If this distinction isn't picked up by a teaching pro he really hasn't taken the time I feel. David's is a well executed swing thought that could work for many, but needs to be taken in this context. His simplification of swing in parts can help many, but only if they are willing to integrate it with the correct club path and correct timing in sequencing these parts.
I'm a "body" swinger, but see little difference in my swing when recorded vs. friends who consider themselves more "handsy".

The difference I feel for many, is all in our heads in the form of thoughts that work for each individual in trying to achieve a repetitive swing that works for us. In this context, David's thoughts work !

well said. i agree