Head and front shoulder lunge...HELP!

[TonyV]

Hello everyone,

I need some help!
I've been golfing for 2 years and have a major swing flaw that I can't cure.

The pro at my course noticed that at the top of my backswing, I start the downswing by moving/tilting my head and front shoulder forward toward the target. I don't realize that I do this, and it yields inconsistent shots with very low ball flights. Apparently, this is common with hockey players.

We tried a bunch of drills such as feet together, one arm swing, shadow, heel up... They seem to prevent me from swaying, but when I go back to my regular swing, the forward push starts again. I'll do a drill for a while and feel as if I'm rotating my shoulders around my spine, then do a normal swing and ask my friend if I moved forward, and the answer is always "YES!".

Can anyone offer any advice please? I'm starting to think that I will never be able to stop this... -->-->

Thank you!

[BrianW]

Re: Head and front shoulder lunge...HELP!

I hope you take this as constructive criticism? Looking at your attached pictures you have a number of things that need some working on. Your address position is all wrong, your takeaway, transition, downswing, rotation, stability and release needs reworking. You are swatting your wrists at the ball which will be creating many errors and power leaks.

I honestly think you need to book a set of beginner lessons with a good professional and get the basics of a good swing sorted out.

[TonyV]

Re: Head and front shoulder lunge...HELP!

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the input! Trust me, nothing can be said about my swing that will rattle me, I've heard it all.

The sad thing is that I did take a 4 lesson package from a pro at the beginning of the season. Maybe this pro wasn't that good, but he said that I did improve and needed to focus on stopping this forward sway.

I didn't quite agree with him on my improvement, so I changed to a simpler single plane swing offered by Joe Davidson and Mike O'Leary, http://simplegolf.com/. I've seen it discussed on this forum. That is where I am getting my address position and takeaway from.

You think that it is all bad and that I shouldn't concentrate on the sway, but rather start over with another pro?
I figured this simple swing would be easier for me.

Thanks again!

[rogue]

Re: Head and front shoulder lunge...HELP!

put a metal spike next to your head. If you lunge forward you will hurt yourself and very quickly condition yourself to not do it.

A less drastic measure would be to use reverse resistance. Get someone to push their hand or club against the side of your face that is away from the target. Try to keep pressure against their hand with you head until you hit the ball and slightly beyond.

But from the look of your swing it looks very hockey like. Also, you may have a lot of inflexibility that is limiting your ability to do this. A good professional is trained and able to look at the body a bit better now.

[mahbo]

Re: Head and front shoulder lunge...HELP!

Hi Tony

keep perservering, and I admire the steps you are taking to imporve things. Most people won't go to that next level, so good on you.

I agree with Brian, you might need to work on the basics. But if I was to pick on a few areas, I also have noticed at address, you have too much weight loaded on your left foot, which means your properly not transferring your weight properly and loading into your left leg( another leak in power). With your half swing, for one power is lost, but secondly it looks like you are delicately trying to steer the ball, instead of completeting your turn and letting rip.

Seems like you also have a very very strong grip

All very fixable

[TonyV]

Re: Head and front shoulder lunge...HELP!

Hi,

Thank you all for your input.

The reason I am adressing the ball this way with this grip, is based on the new swing that I am working on. It is the Simple Swing, which is a single plane swing based on a rotation of the core muscles (shoulders, chest, abdomen) VS the dual plane swing. I figured this would be simpler for me, seeing as I had difficulties with the downswing in general.

I seem to have the same issues no matter what swing I try, my downswing is out of sequence, and I advance my head and shoulders toward the target.

Besides seeing a pro (which I already did), does anyone have any good advice on how to fix my downswing? To be able to rotate well around my spine, and maintain my spine angle throughout.

I fear that i am now doing a bunch of drills that either A) reinforce my bad habits or B) are a waste of time, as they don't correct any of my issues.

Thanks!

[BrianW]

Re: Head and front shoulder lunge...HELP!

Tony,

I dont know much about this simple swing but from what I can see in your pictures I dont like it much.

I cannot see how anyone can make a good swing with that grip. You are not transferring your weight and pivoting. You are lunging forward with your upper body through impact in an attempt to get your weight forward, this type of move normally results in a very low ball flight or topped shots. You must also work to stop your wrists flipping at the ball through impact, this is probably due to you trying to scoop the ball up as to hitting down into the ball and letting the clubface loft do the work.

To improve you need to start working on the following move, try it slowly at first and by making half swings with a medium iron (8 iron):

Take the club back and pause, before starting your downswing slide your lower body to the left so that your left knee is directly over your left foot, keep your shoulders fully rotated. Now focus fully on keeping your head behind the ball as you rotate around your left heel and strike the ball.

Try to look more like this as you come into impact, head back and weight forward.

[TheGolfGuru]

Re: Head and front shoulder lunge...HELP!

I'm new to this site, but my passion is coaching. I've looked at your swing pictures and to be honest the first thing you need before any fancy drills is to get the basics sorted out.

Your grip is very strong and this is causing a chain reaction of other errors in your swing. Without a good grip you have little or no chance of improving your swing and therefore your golf game.

Please take the time to visit your local PGA Professional and insist he helps you to develop a good grip.

Regards,

TheGolfGuru

[TonyV]

Re: Head and front shoulder lunge...HELP!

Hello everyone,

Thanks for all the input!

Before going further, I would like to make one thing clear. I did start off the season with lessons from a pro, I did have an interlock grip and conventional address position. My swing was the traditional body driven dual swing plane. As soon as the pro saw me swing, he said that I was lunging forward (towards the target) with my head and shoulders on the downswing. I stuck with it for the entire summer, doing drills, and was not seeing very positive results or improvements.

Last month I purchased the Simple Swing package, http://simplegolf.com/, because it was introduced to me as a simpler, single-plane swing. I figured this would be easier for me, and could limit my lunging/swaying. With this new swing I seem to have the same problem, hence I don't think the swing is the issue. I could send videos of my swing with a regular grip and stance, yet the lunging will still be there.

Brian, you are 100% right when you say that I am lunging forward with my upper body through impact. Now, I want to learn how to STOP doing that, no matter what grip, stance, club, etc.

Do you guys think that the Simple Swing is not worth it for me?
Should I stick with the conventional swing I used to have and work on Brian's drill to get my downswing in sequence?

Thanks again for all you input, appreciated!

[TheGolfGuru]

Re: Head and front shoulder lunge...HELP!

Hi Tony,

Unfortunately there isn't a magic key to this wonderful game. Yet we're all in pursuit of it. Including myself.

However, I would like to bring your attention to a brand new website www.mygolfguru.net

I launched the site earlier this year (2010) and I've personally devoted thousands of hours writing and designing a coaching system which I hope will help thousands of golfers like yourself.

Being a PGA Professional myself I wanted to be able to reach out and tell golfers about my findings of thirty years of research and analysis. The internet was the obvious route to take.

MYGOLFGURU is a fully interactive learning programme where you can enjoy the feeling of a 'one to one' lesson between Guru and pupil... all from the comfort of your own home. The information is 'drip fed' so as not to cause confusion and overload.

There is a special 50% discount running for the month of September, which means you can get twelve months membership to my site for less than £15!

Give it a try and I guarantee you'll be impressed. www.mygolfguru.net

Best regards,

The GolfGuru.

[mahbo]

Re: Head and front shoulder lunge...HELP!

Tony,

You say you have two years of experience playing golf. Obviously you have studied the golf swings of the tour pros and other low handicap players. One of the things I'll bet you've obverlooked, or never [really] considered, is your posture compared to the posture of good golfers.

Even though your images are face-on, instead of down-the-line, it's easy to see that you do not have the proper athletic posture to make a decent golf swing. It's no wonder [to me] that your upper body (head and lead shoulder you say) lunges toward the target. It has little choice but to lunge.

(I'm guessing from time-to-time you might have hit decent shots with the ball well above your feet "if" you rotated your entire upper and lower body as a unit (which your current posture mandates), and swing your arms using minimal wrist cock. And you might also have hit a decent every once in a while with the ball well below your feet "if" you happened to bend from your hips (correctly) in order to reach down to the ball. These types of mystery decent shots could stick in your memory as you wonder what in the world you did to have a different swing sensation and strike the ball solidly.)

When you swing a golf club the body MUST bend at the hips (the hip sockets) to separate the upper body from the lower body. Without this bend (at the hips) there is no separation and you cannot make a proper backswing...and the downswing has no chance of being correct. And you'll find any sort of a "natural" weight transfer shift for teh transition into the downswing extremely troubling.

In your case it appears that you are standing far too erect at address, thus any attempt to swing a golf club just makes your entire upper body move toward the target on the downward swing.

Here's a tip for you to help you bend at the hips and get into a proper posture. Stand up and then act as though you were taking a bow to someone. When you take a bow the upper body moves forward from the hip sockets, which is exactly what you want to create the separation between the lower body and upper body.

Proper posture puts you in an balanced athletic position. If I walked up and nudged your upper body - you'd be solidly positioned...unlike the posture I see in the images you provided. This proper bend-from-the-hips position allows you to turn your shoulders around your inclined spine, and it allows your arms to swing on a proper path to the top of your backswing. But, even more important is what proper posture will do for your downswing. I think you'll quickly find out that it's natural for your head to remain in position and your upper body to rotate around your spine instead of it lunging (with the head of course) toward the target. You'll also find the you're far less likely to have the right shoulder come over-the-top in the downswing because your lead arm will be coming from a better path to deliver the clubhead from the inside.

Remember, bend at the hip joints. Don't be lazy and just arch your lower back and bend at the waist...because that does NOT separate the upper body from the lower body.

Actually I have to say that's really good advice Tony, which I will take for myself. I had an online lesson recently, and they were saying somethign very similar, and that I wasn't angular enough and standing too tall.....

[TonyV]

Re: Head and front shoulder lunge...HELP!

Hi guys,

First off, thank you to all who have participated in this discussion, a lot of very valuable info.

Go Low, you are really hittig the nail on the head when you discuss my posture and inability to seperate my upper and lower body. I have been told this before. Now, how can I really know that I am tilting at the hips and not the waist? Is there a trick or method for me to guarantee a hip bend?

Also, another point that you are 110% correct about: "Most golfers don't use a single swing method but ignorantly use parts of multiple methods, which simply doesn't work"
I suspect that this has been a part of my problem for a while. I have seen a pro who was instructing a dual plane swing, I then recently ordered a simpler, single swing plane DVD package. I am getting tips from evryone on the course/range that often conflict each other...

So? Wipe the slate clean and move on to the Leslie King method?
I'm dying to get back on the course, so I want a plan of action to be able to swing the club well asap. Is the Leslie King method a dual plane swing? Is it a swing that I can achieve with a few hours per day, and weekend practice?

I had not seen all these posts, as the site was done. I will practice my posture as of today.

Thank you!

[BrianW]

Re: Head and front shoulder lunge...HELP!

Tony,

If you want to see the Leslie King method for free then take a look at the attached site and look through the series of lessons. A more up-to-date book on his method is called 'The Swing Factory' it has some very good graphics.

http://www.golfpro-online.com/tuition/lking/index.html

[Neil18]

Re: Head and front shoulder lunge...HELP!

I like these photo's.

Two things. I wouldn't call Tom's posture in this particular photo "bad". Straight lower spine and curved upper is fine. It helps toward relaxing your upper half. Havaing a bullet straight spine is part of being tense. If you relax, your shoulders drop forward and you get that rounded shoulder/back look. See any photo's of Sam Snead for a perfect example:

http://www.historicgolfphotos.com/st...wing-sequence/

Secondly, "Weight on the balls of feet" is one I wholeheartedly don't agree with.

Our body needs to be in balance at all times. If I'm standing talking to someone, I'm not standing on the balls of my feet. I'm equally spread between heel and ball. The above photo demostrates good weight distribution as well.

For me, weight on the balls of the feet will automatically mean the legs and body will try to straighten up during the swing because of the forces at work, especially during the downswing and through impact. You'll be pulled forward (as you're already towards your toes) and your body's reaction will be to stand up to counteract it. Loss of spine angle and a wipe at the ball will result.

[Neil18]

Re: Head and front shoulder lunge...HELP!

Comprende Go Low.

Nice.