Are You Doing Your Backswing Pivot Correctly?

[slater170]

Re: Are You Doing Your Backswing Pivot Correctly?

hi brian
was struggling so much for the 1st half of the season with my irons while my driving was uber reliable. i have worked incredibly hard on my ball striking and short game so it was disapointing that my driving had gone offf the boil
anyhow i have been to the range tonight after reading this thread and immediately found out what was at fault

played a lot of golf this year so im ready for a break but cant wait for next season to start again on dropping the handicap

cheers GO LOW

[BrianW]

Re: Are You Doing Your Backswing Pivot Correctly?

hi brian
was struggling so much for the 1st half of the season with my irons while my driving was uber reliable. i have worked incredibly hard on my ball striking and short game so it was disapointing that my driving had gone offf the boil
anyhow i have been to the range tonight after reading this thread and immediately found out what was at fault

played a lot of golf this year so im ready for a break but cant wait for next season to start again on dropping the handicap

cheers GO LOW

So you are playing off something like single figures these days, well done mate.

[slater170]

Re: Are You Doing Your Backswing Pivot Correctly?

So you are playing off something like single figures these days, well done mate.

no, but will be this time next year

the pro i went to see in april has transformed my game and reckons he can get me down to 7 or 8 next year

having parred the front and back 9's at my place on seperate occasions i know i can achieve single figures

[BrianW]

Re: Are You Doing Your Backswing Pivot Correctly?

no, but will be this time next year

the pro i went to see in april has transformed my game and reckons he can get me down to 7 or 8 next year

having parred the front and back 9's at my place on seperate occasions i know i can achieve single figures

I am sure your dedication will pay off Ian.

[DBG864]

Re: Are You Doing Your Backswing Pivot Correctly?

I have just joined today. It is because of the advice given here, makes a lot since.

Thanks and keep it up.

[BrianW]

Re: Are You Doing Your Backswing Pivot Correctly?

I have just joined today. It is because of the advice given here, makes a lot since.

Thanks and keep it up.

Welcome to the site. We look forward to your contribution.

[keiko]

Re: Are You Doing Your Backswing Pivot Correctly?

It has been said that snap hooks are due to lazy hips not moving around but instead hanging back. Made sense to me at the time. Take the reverse for example, if one moves the hips too fast through imact one gets blocks and slices so not moving the hips around makes sense that one would hook/pull.

This thread has appeared just at the right time!
though my problem only arises when im hitting driver which in the main i end up hitting snap hooks

strange as my iron shots are nice soft draws

[BrianW]

Re: Are You Doing Your Backswing Pivot Correctly?

Yes, I think that's correct. When the body turn stalls the arms can be whipped around creating hooks.

[daver1982]

Re: Are You Doing Your Backswing Pivot Correctly?

im sitting reading this at work cos i read the title and know i suffer from this. i just started a thread about my "glued left shoulder" , which seems to ammount from doing this pivot very incorrectly. i play off 9 which isnt too bad but feel there is something big stopping me from progressing further.

anyway, i just had to rush to the toilet (where there is a mirror) and try this out and have a look.

by doing this turn you can feel an unbelievable ammount of power built up in the right hip / knee, which is something ive been obviously missing. also it look much more like a golf swing (if you know what i mean).

cant wait to try this on the range. will let you know how it goes.

keep on postin'!

dave

[keiko]

Re: Are You Doing Your Backswing Pivot Correctly?

Makes sense, the longer the shaft the more critical the timing in rotating the hips properly. Some take the turn behind-stay behind mantra too literally and hold off rotating through with the hips. While the hips should rotate(fast) the upper body stays behind.

It has been said that snap hooks are due to lazy hips not moving around but instead hanging back. Made sense to me at the time. Take the reverse for example, if one moves the hips too fast through imact one gets blocks and slices so not moving the hips around makes sense that one would hook/pull.

[Ringer]

Re: Are You Doing Your Backswing Pivot Correctly?

It is accurate to say that the right butt cheek rotates toward the target, but not the hip itself. The left hip rotates around the right hip socket. That turns your butt so that it faces the target, but I REALLY don't like what Brady and Shawn suggest. I understand what they are trying to do, but I think it takes away from the shear force the right leg can use to push off in the forward swing. I also see a LOT of right leg straightening when people try to move their "right hip back".

Also, a very big problem with trying to measure this at the "top of the backswing" is that there is no real "top of the backswing". For 95% of the best golfers in the world, the lower body is starting it's motion forward before the upper body has finished the backswing. The example you gave of Hogan that a lot of people use as their example, is very very poor because of this. Hogan had a VERY early move forward of his lower body.

Try comparing where he starts to the furthest right his right hip goes. Then he creates this angle because he starts the push while his arms are still going back. He's pulling the slack out of his kinetic chain and a lot of bio-mechanist's think this was a way that Hogan used to generate speed.

[keiko]

Re: Are You Doing Your Backswing Pivot Correctly?

Stack and tilt is losing what little favor it had due to distance problems and other things associated with it.
Just remember, back to the target on backswing, butt to the crowd on through swing.

[Ringer]

Re: Are You Doing Your Backswing Pivot Correctly?

Before I begin I would just like to say I appreciate the enthusiasm and desire you place in your posts. In no way should you feel that any disagreement I have with your post should reflect on how I feel about you as a person. I think you have a good starting point of understanding, but it does need some refining.

If golfers would learn to swing the golf club using centrifugal/centripetal force and get COMPLETELY OVER their hitting impulse all the body positions and body moves will fall into place automatically. That said, golfers need to educate their hands by having them exert no energy (torque) whatsoever on the club's grip. If they would just learn to return the hands and club to their starting position and let momentum finish their swing they would learn the art of swinging the golf club.

First, centrifugal force is merely a feel. It's not an actual force. The club is simply trying to go in a straight line while you are continually pulling it inward which caused the club to travel along an arc. There is no FORCE that pulls the club into alignment. This means that if you are TRULY going to apply no torque to the club directly then you would have to either abruptly stop your hands at the ball, or slow them down as they approach the ball so that the club can rotate around your wrists. It's not a matter of opinion but physics.

Secondly, I would contend that everyone applies torque to the club whether they know it or not. The mere fact that the toe rotates around the hosel means there must be some torque causing this rotation. Without some form of torque applied by the hands, how do you explain what squares up the clubface?

Lastly, are you contending that there is no torque applied in the backswing? If there is torque applied in the backswing wouldn't you need torque in the forward swing to counter it?

All this stuff like shaft lean, bent-back right wrist, elbow down, hip shift, weight transfer, hit down, head behind ball, posting on firm left leg, spine tilt, etc., etc. are positions and movements that are the effect of swinging a golf club correctly, not something that will actually cause a correct golf swing. The golf "swing" must come first! The golfer must learn what his body feels like when truly swinging a golf club (using centripetal force)...and that feel must first come from the hands because the hands are most responsible for whether the swing is correct or destroyed.

What is swinging in the golf swing? What precisely is the axis and what precisely is the radius? How does a "good swing" cause forward shaft lean?
How does it cause a bent right wrist? Elbow down? Hip shift? Weight shift? etc.. It seems to me there is some serious discrepancy between what causes action. Doesn't the body produce the motion? The motion doesn't produce the body. I'm not looking to go into infinite details with every student, but I am interested in knowing what details I need to know for the student in front of me. I can't very well teach every person to get better in 30 minutes with "just swing and your body will follow". Not in the practical world anyway.

This thread (which I started), along with many other threads I've started, should probably have a prerequisite stating: this "position" or "movement" is not something that will necessarily cause a better golf swing, but instead is the "position" or "movement" a golfer will make if they are swinging correctly.

That's fine, but again the swing doesn't cause anything. We cause the swing. I'm all for intention causing action, but it always starts with the player.

[daver1982]

Re: Are You Doing Your Backswing Pivot Correctly?

the thing i cannot seem to get , is that with no tension in the shuolders, arms, wrists, hands i feel very unconnected and very out of time.

i understand the logic in it and believe it to be true. I seem to get to the top of my backswing ( all loose, fairly good position, nicely coiled around right side ) , and then on the downswing it all disapears.

how can i keep this power and transfer this coil into speed ?

[BrianW]

Re: Are You Doing Your Backswing Pivot Correctly?

I need to consider this a little as I am not sold on the theory that centripetal force is all you need to create an effective golf swing. I have used the idea of swinging a weight on a string myself to show how the swing plane works but I am not convinced that it is the same action used in the golf swing.

If we imagine something like the weight of a golfclub head on a string, to get it swinging around a tight focal point would require it to be swung back and forth gradually while your hand was making quite large arcs until the swinging action gathered enough momentum for you to pull it into a tight central radius. I dont think you can do this when swinging a club, you cannot achieve enough momentum in the short distance the club travels so you must exert an amount of force with the body, arms and wrists to create suitable inertia and force. I imagine that this does create centripetal force but it will not be enough to control the action of the clubface, rather a reaction to it. Throwing a ball is a simpler and different action to that of swinging an implement like a golf club, the club is a yard or so long with an offset face that has to move at around 100 mph on a two yard radius and strike a golf ball in a very precise position of the clubface, I would though consider it a throw of the club.

I will ponder some more but welcome your responces.