Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

[Go Low]

Posts by Go Low in this thread have been deleted.

Go Low

[KrudlerAce]

Spot On

Excellent Thread.

Great advice for golfers of all levels.

Really like the part about hand speed in the golf swing, makes a lot of sense.

Cheers Go Low!

[bill reed]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

Good post Go Low. lots of usefull information
cheers
Bill

[Al56]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

Valuable tips, as always, G.L. Much appreciated. Also enjoyed your discussions on "backswing pivot" in spite of the background noise. Keep it up.

[keiko]

Re: Saving The Absolute Best For Last

So what is "it" you are saving for us?
I am truly interested.

I have purposely saved the absolute best and most important tip of all (bar none) for later. It is something that 99% of all scratch golfers and tour players do - but they don't understand why or how it works. Likewise, 99.9% of mid and high-handicaps don't do it. It's rarely taught by even the best golf teachers and swing coaches. It's rarely mentioned, and never really explained to any degree, in instruction books. It's not really understood by most people why it has such an effect, except (to the best of my knowledge) by only one person. It is what allows 100lb (soaking wet) LPGA players, and some scrawny elite junior golfers, to hit 270 yd drives and 185yd 5 irons on a very repeatable and consistent basis, one swing-after-another - and explains why strong adult male scratch and tour golfers are only 15-30yds longer. If there really is such a thing as a "SECRET" of the golf swing - in my opinion, that this is it!


Stops casting and swinging over-the-top.
Promotes a draw with inside delivery.
Increases clubhead speed by a huge percentage.
Produces acceleration through the ball for maximum ball compression.
Naturally preserves the lag angle deeper in downswing.
Produces a natural quick release.
Higher angle of attack.
Down-and-through at ball contact.
Encourages a proper ground-up kinetic chain sequence.
Accuracy comes along with it.
Usually very asy to learn by experienced golfers regardless of handicap...especially when it is understood what actually happens and why it is important.
Practically effortless "move" - strength is not a major factor (children, women, seniors, adults).
Almost guarantees that an experienced golfer with a so-so mediocre golf swing will have a good golf swing within a matter of hours.


Most all handicap golfers have, on rare occasions every once in a while, hit unbelievable shots of great length and ball flight characteristics, with pinpoint accuracy and unmistakable sound, which feels unlike anything they are accustomed to with their regular golf swing. That rare golf swing will very likely become your regular swing by understanding and adapting this move!

[andyhiggins]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

Yes Go Low,

What are you saving for us???? I await with anticipation, I always read your advice and act on it. I loved the bit on the backswing pivot and the hand speed idea I am trying tonight at the range.

Andy

[Ringer]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!





295 yard average with the above "Lag" (or lack thereof). I have been known to hit it over 340 on occasion.

[Ringer]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

Oh boy.



Each red dot is where the butt end of the grip is. He is moving it in a circle and has considerable lag as anyone who watches this famous video can tell you.

[keiko]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

Go Low, most of us are very thankful to have you as a resource, in fact, your posts are so good that you should re-consider writing that book we posted about awhile ago. Get a ghost writer where you can supply the info and it can be written, less hassle etc. for you.
Anyway, the drop down move is something my swing coach had me doing but your explanation is great.
The one problem I had with the move initially was that I was drop kicking, if you know what I mean. Once I got the idea that the club shaft had to be horizontal to the ground, ie. moving down the target line, I found the whipping feel you talk about.
Thanks so much.

You're looking at the wrong view. You cannot easily tell in a face-on view if he is swinging straight down toward the ground (with a backward toward target movemet)...or if he is swinging on a circular arc out toward the target line.

Think of the video and what would cause the double pendulum to open. A backward (away from target) and down movement would not cause the double pendulum to open whereas a movement out toward the target line would.

As I said: "(It's harder to tell in face-on images and videos what the golfer is doing, but down-the-line views are better.)"

I'm about fed up with you Ringer. You remind me of a little sawed-off punk that wants to argue about everything.

[LowPost42]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

Here is an example of a tour pro dropping his hands and club down before the body pivot rotates his body around, which then will cause his left arm to move outward toward the target line and thus release his lag angle.

I have to disagree with you here.

Watch the relationship of the arms and hands to the chest and/or right shoulder. The sequence clearly shows that the hands and arms are set at the top of the swing, then the body rotation starts and the arms come along for the ride - they're not actively dropping while the body is still. It's the bump left and the body rotating that drops the arms - not the arms moving independently. The first 3 frames of the downswing, the right elbow stays in the same orientation and the hands don't move at all. The upper right arm stays right beside the torso.

Clearly: The hands and arms are not moving independent of the body. The body rotation is moving the arms and hands.

Or maybe I've missed the point? Are we discussing how the shoulders don't seem to turn as the arms move?

[kbp]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

The observations are accurate, but the "why", I think needs a bit more. Why are we above plane to begin with? Why is there no power in over the top? Why do we want to return flatter than we went back, no matter how flat we went back? Why did Ben Hogan’s swing have a drop when his backswing is flatter than Nicklaus’s downswing plane?

The drop has nothing to do with radius and lag. Iron Byron does not have a drop. He has lag and he pulls right from the top. But then he doesn’t have to deal with limited range of motion about his "spine" nor does he have to manipulate hips and legs to make a full swing both ways.
The drop should not be a passive positioning move.....a necessary complicating factor required simply because we are above plane. We are purposely above plane so we can efficiently engage our core to drive our system. The byproduct of this is a drop.

The so-called kinetic chain is not ground up but middle out. There should not be a push-off. The most efficient downswing is started by the contraction of the side and back muscles on the trail side. This move drops the right shoulder, unloads the back heel, tilts the spine, holds the tush line, starts the weight target wise, advances the left hip laterally and then into rotation......back and up. The move is not required because the hands are above plane......the hands are above plane to accommodate the move.

Conversely, contracting the front and target side abs result in over the top.

As always, there are plenty of good golf being played with less than optimal swings. You can also have an optimal move even if you don’t know the exact "Why". If you look at video of Tour players from the back side, their butt side, on a lot of them you can see this contraction start before there is any foot action.

[Ringer]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

The observations are accurate, but the "why", I think needs a bit more. Why are we above plane to begin with? Why is there no power in over the top? Why do we want to return flatter than we went back, no matter how flat we went back? Why did Ben Hogan’s swing have a drop when his backswing is flatter than Nicklaus’s downswing plane?

The drop has nothing to do with radius and lag. Iron Byron does not have a drop. He has lag and he pulls right from the top. But then he doesn’t have to deal with limited range of motion about his "spine" nor does he have to manipulate hips and legs to make a full swing both ways.
The drop should not be a passive positioning move.....a necessary complicating factor required simply because we are above plane. We are purposely above plane so we can efficiently engage our core to drive our system. The byproduct of this is a drop.

The so-called kinetic chain is not ground up but middle out. There should not be a push-off. The most efficient downswing is started by the contraction of the side and back muscles on the trail side. This move drops the right shoulder, unloads the back heel, tilts the spine, holds the tush line, starts the weight target wise, advances the left hip laterally and then into rotation......back and up. The move is not required because the hands are above plane......the hands are above plane to accommodate the move.

Conversely, contracting the front and target side abs result in over the top.

As always, there are plenty of good golf being played with less than optimal swings. You can also have an optimal move even if you don’t know the exact "Why". If you look at video of Tour players from the back side, their butt side, on a lot of them you can see this contraction start before there is any foot action.

Dr. Neal from Golf Bio Dynamics at Doral would disagree with you regarding the kinetic link. It does start from the feet up and he has force plate data to support that theory as well as 3D graphing data.

The first force in a good golfswing to be applied is the use of shear force to the ground by the back foot.

[lgskywalker37]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

You say you are good at golf and seem to help people with your swing thoughts. My advice to you would be to stick to the swing thoughts. Attempting to explain whats going on or worse saying "most don't even realize what they are doing" when you yourself don't and using kenesiology terms or physics is not your strong suit.

Though in your defense, I know a lot of what you said is widely spread through out the golfing community.

I can only guess you have problems with self esteem or something or you have such a big ego that you think you are right. I don't see why you throw around these unnessiary equations and try to sound smarter than you are.

Google "colliding objects". You will see mass of object 1 and 2, and velocity of object 1 and 2. There are other factors, but they are either contant or uncontrollable so there is no need to go into them.

There is a sweet spot where the energy transfer will be the greatest, and the further you are from the spot, that goes down, but we aren't really talking about that either, lets pretnet everyshot is the sweet spot to take taht variable out and make this more simple.

Since the mass of teh club doesn't change, and the mass of the ball doesn'st change, the only way to get a higher ball velocity, is to have a higher club velocity.

To get a higher velocity, you need either high acceleration, or a lot of time. Acceleration its self has NOTHING to do with the velocity of the ball and there for distance. As the longer you accelerate the higher the velocity is, or the faster you accelerate over a shorter time, the higher your velocity will be. THAT IS IT!

You start throwing in all this unnessiary and improperly used physics is just rediculous and even makes it hard to correct it is so confusing. I will say one example. F=ma. This could be used for the ball. The mass can't change, so the acceleration from a stop to 200mph is X amount of force. Using it for the clubhead would say that if you have the clubhead at 100mph, but it isn't accelerating the force is 0? Would you like to put your face in front of a non-accelerating club at 100mph? The force is 0 though right? This would be a weak shot right, since there is no acceleration?

Torque, there is non in the golf swing. Torque is the tendency of a force to rotate an object about an axis. The human body has no central axis and cannot creat any torque within itself. If a plane is flying around in a circle, there is no torque, even if it is flying around in a cirlce, because it is not ATTACHED to a central axis. Nothing rotates on the human body, the closest would be the radius and ulnar bone and the tibia and fibula, as they appear to rotate, but they are actuall two bones not attached about a central axis rather muscles on each end that pull or push the bones. Now you can apply torque to something, like taking a lug off of a wheel, but the torque is the force you are applying around the central axis of the lug. Your spine doesn't rotate, your scapula is moving in a linear manner and the limits of motion makes it arc. But there still is no cental axis about which it is moving so there is NO TORQUE.

You can move your hand through space in a circle, but there is no torque. And the smaller you make the circle, the faster you can completet the circle. But this isn't MOI, you are traveling a further distance, so it takes longer to complete a circle. Or if you were to be completing a circle in the same time, that would mean the hand in the larger circle is moving faster. It is a harmoneous use of levers and joints, not one central axis of torque.

The ones that talk about kenetic chains, they undertand it is about various levers and joints accelerating over time and causing a higher velocity. Those that talk of torque have no clue what they are talking about.

Some apply torque to the golf club by having the left hand pull and the right ahnd push. Then central axis is point between their hands on which the rotate. This is similar to Japanese Sword and some use this in the baseball swing. Not everyone uses this in the swing nor do I thikn it is the most efficient, but it is a form and the only form of torque in the golf swing.

Your angular momentum and torque and MOI and force is all unnessisary extra stuff that doesn't apply to anything in the golf swing and is wrong.

Flipping doesn't slow your acceleration, it actually increases it. When you remove the club 90* from adress you now have that much farther to go giving you that much more time to accelerate. If you don't let it get back to adress, you are wasting that movement if you move it back in the first place.

[Ringer]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

Not everything skywalker said is 100% accurate, but it's much closer than what Go Low is saying. Science has changed a lot of the ways we look at the swing and some of the older established "truths" have been thrown out. I know this because I'm in discussion with scientists.

Go Low has found a niche for himself. That's fine. I never insulted him but clearly he's on the warpath for me. I don't really care. Science is science. My job is to take science and make it applicable to my students. Sometimes part of that job is throwing out the junk science people like Go Low has drilled into them. If I can at least create a little questioning then it's a lot easier to dig it out of their brains before it becomes fully established.

Go Low, as accurately as you can.. describe what makes the ball curve and what impact conditions are required to make what spin?

[BrianW]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

There has been some good debate and information presented on this site of late and from a number of different posters. As in most debates individuals will have varied views on subject matter and will naturally wish to present arguments that substantiate their beliefs, others may disagree with what has been posted and will explain why their views differ. This is healthy discussion and just what a site like this needs.

However, it is not healthy debate to attempt to debase others views through personal insults and name calling. As a Moderator to this site I am not and will not take sides in any disagreements, I wish to make clear that from now on I will actively edit and remove any post or part of a post that does this.

Please keep posting and the debates lively, I implore you all to maintain a modicum of tolerance to others views please.