Spine angle

[Hannu]

Hi,
Has anyone got an idea what kind of shape would or should be draw in the air if you had a rod sticking from your back - kind da extracting your spine over your head? (Thinking of getting feedback from my spine angle during a swing).

Or would it be better to stick a broom handle from your sleeves to see if you draw a circle as you swing?

Just getting ready for off season :-)

[BrianW]

Re: Spine angle

I am not sure how helpful the information would be . Here is a picture that shows the movements of various parts of the body that were tracked during a golfers downswing:

[Hannu]

Re: Spine angle

Thanks BrianW,
it helps. (I am missing one crutial point - hip. I would need the position of neck and hip to get the line of spine.)

I'll try to find a fishing rod or something and stick it from my shirt collar to pants and look who it figgles during a swing.

(From a quick test showed my spine waves right and left. I was antisipating that rod should only move a little and turn around it's axis.)

[keiko]

Re: Spine angle

With all due respect, you are worrying about the wrong things. It is enough to say, keep your spine angle(whatever it may be)the same throughout the swing, no swaying, no bobbing up or down, no lifting.

Thanks BrianW,
it helps. (I am missing one crutial point - hip. I would need the position of neck and hip to get the line of spine.)

I'll try to find a fishing rod or something and stick it from my shirt collar to pants and look who it figgles during a swing.

(From a quick test showed my spine waves right and left. I was antisipating that rod should only move a little and turn around it's axis.)

[Hannu]

Re: Spine angle

With all due respect, you are worrying about the wrong things.

Well - not so much worried than curious... It's very likely that I will take the fishing rod off my back before going to play. (Unless it proves to be something very helpful:-)

Thanks keiko for your input. I appriciate your comment.

[Hannu]

Re: Spine angle

I taught that broom was something new, but I found interesting drills like

or

Next time sweeping the front yard will be new experience.

[ricktimm]

Re: Spine angle

Hannu....what hcp. are you currently? Do you have any software that can slow a tour player swing? The avg. spine angle on tour is 45 degrees...you may want to go into a GolfTec center and ask them to show you how the spine moves during a tour players swing. They are cool and shouldn't charge you to shoot the breeze. Where are you located?
Good Golfing,
Rick

[Hannu]

Re: Spine angle

Hi Rick,
did you mean something like this?
http://www.pgatour.com/swingplex/02/0.../98/index.html
(Or more 3D like this http://www.motiongolf.com/golf-videos...the-month.aspx

or

# )

I tried a broom from my collar to belt - sticking about 1 meter higher than my head. Very interesting - looked at my swing from a mirrow.

My current hcp is 11.1 and very much still trying to get it to single digit.
I did find my game last season. No technical thoughts during a round!!! Some thought on how my swing and body feels, but off season could be the right time to "do some maintainence" on my swing.

Where am I? This is my home from google http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...A4,+Suomi&z=16
BUT at the moment we do have 40 cm snow...

[BrianW]

Re: Spine angle

Our spine angle needs to change with the club you are using. The ideal swing plane for power and consistency is when the club is rotating at 90 degrees to your spine angle, you will need to be more upright with a driver and bent over progressively more as you use shorter clubs. The faster we swing a club the more the rotational forces apply to it pull it into this natural position where it is at right angles to our spine so it is important that we stand the correct distance from the ball with the correct tilt at setup.

These pictures show you how to position the club and your spine angle correctly. Hold the club out in front of you so it is horizontal with your wrists hinging naturally, bend over from the hips so that the club touches the floor and then flex your knees a little so that they are relaxed. You will now be in the optimum position for the club in use.

[RhydTybyans]

Re: Spine angle

You may find some of the discussion on the Forever Better Golf website interesting. The site markets a device designed to train the user to maintain his or her spine angle during the swing but there is some interesting discussion concerning the concept of spine angle.

For instance, there's the perception that there are in fact two different spine angles: the conventional one which refers to the degree to which the body is bending over from the waist when viewed from down the line and the so-called frontal spine angle, which is the angle of the spine when viewed when looking at the golfer from in front of him. This is explained in detail in the attached pdf file which I cannot find on the website but which I somehow acquired.

[Hannu]

Re: Spine angle

Hi, forever better golf site shows a youtube video. Swing on the video looks like it does not have any lag and height is very much on the back leg during contact. Follow through stance after swing is interesting. (Maybe due to fact that players head is staying still and natural movement is prevented?

About tilting spine left or right during a swing... or curving - stagging it... so up and down movement is not the only problem - but fixing your head stationary might not be the solution.

[Hannu]

Re: Spine angle

Our spine angle needs to change with the club you are using. The ideal swing plane for power and consistency is when the club is rotating at 90 degrees to your spine angle, you will need to be more upright with a driver and bent over progressively more as you use shorter clubs. The faster we swing a club the more the rotational forces apply to it pull it into this natural position where it is at right angles to our spine so it is important that we stand the correct distance from the ball with the correct tilt at setup.

This is something I am just starting to realize. It means that swing plane is always the same compared to spine angle ( 90 degrees) but spine angle changes related to club. Why don't we set up with straight arms.. or straigth line from arms - clup to ball? Setup has an angle when we start our swing but rotation forces our club shaft and arms to a straigth line at impact.

[BrianW]

Re: Spine angle

This is something I am just starting to realize. It means that swing plane is always the same compared to spine angle ( 90 degrees) but spine angle changes related to club. Why don't we set up with straight arms.. or straigth line from arms - clup to ball? Setup has an angle when we start our swing but rotation forces our club shaft and arms to a straigth line at impact.

We should setup with straight arms, we have a small amount of natural hinge in the wrists though. I think you mean why dont we setup with our arms and clubshaft both in plane? Moe Norman did this and was probably the most consistent and best ball striker ever, he did have a very wide stance to stabilise the way he needed to reach out to the ball though, this does tend to lose an amount of clubhead speed but can improve ball contact.

[Hannu]

Re: Spine angle

Hi Brian, I remember seeing a document about Moe. His swing is easy to find on Youtube. Maybe he was one of the few who really did swing in one plane:-)
Here is a link to Steve Khatib telling about "one plane" http://golfzone.com.au/golfzone-video/steve.html

Maybe we do not set up on a plane because our impact is not the same as setup? (Even though some technical guides say it should be.)
Maybe we need to have an angle to get lag?

[RhydTybyans]

Re: Spine angle

Hi, forever better golf site shows a youtube video. Swing on the video looks like it does not have any lag and height is very much on the back leg during contact. Follow through stance after swing is interesting. (Maybe due to fact that players head is staying still and natural movement is prevented?

About tilting spine left or right during a swing... or curving - stagging it... so up and down movement is not the only problem - but fixing your head stationary might not be the solution.

Yes, I agree that the video shows what looks like a rather awkward swing.

Paul Wilson has an article on his site entitled Never Keep Your Head Still in the Backswing.

Recently, when I was struggling on the range, I decided on impulse to try moving my head back in the backswing and then keeping it there on the downswing. In fact, I didn't just move my head, I more or less moved my whole body on to my right anchored leg. To my astonishment, I began hitting balls more cleanly that I have for a long time. I have played two games since during which I made a point of moving my head back and each time it paid dividends.

However, for some reason I feel that I shall be better off in the longer run if I do not get into the habit of moving my head back. Somehow, I would prefer to swing while keeping my head in one place, but things have gone haywire over the last year or so.

I am suspecting that I am currently trapped in between a one plane swing and a two plane swing, or between a swing swing and a hitting swing, and that I shall continue to struggle until I settle into one or the other.

What I don't understand is how it is possible that the head can remain in one place on the backswing. Here's what makes me think that it is impossible.

I stand perfectly erect and then turn my shoulders ninety degrees to the right as in a backswing. My head stays easily in the same place.

But now, while maintaining my ninety degree turn, I assume my normal stance by bending my knees and bending my torso from the hips. When I bend my torso over, my head MUST move to the right!

But yes, I watch the backswings of the pros and most these days seem to keep their heads still.

When you find your answer, I'll be pleased if I find it too