Draw+divot

[d.ortiz]

I am 15 and I have been golfing for about 3 years and i currently am shooting between 80 and 85. i will break 80 on good days. I recently started taking divots to make better contact. I never really made divots before that. when i started taking divots i noticed a lower ballflight more spin...etc what you would usually encounter taking divots. in the begenning they would go straight when taking a divot, but recently the ball has been drawing when i have been taking a divot. the divot starts out straight then sharply gets narrower to the left. what is going on? right after i hit the ball it draws. its not a hook but it makes a difference. thanks

[TeachingPro]

Re: Draw+divot

Hey, I see it is your first post! Welcome. I am one of the professional teaching staff linked to GTO.

If you are taking a divot after the ball and getting a good strike on it, which you seem to be because you say there is some spin on the ball, you are trapping the ball between the ground and club face. The ball 'climbs' up the club face and gets released with energy and spins off the club face - all within a few thousandths of a second. The lower ball flight comes from the fact that your hands are in front the ball at impact - just like the pro's. Those are all good indicators!

Your 'left' ball flight seems to be coming from a shut club face. If your divot is narrower in the front (target side) than it is at the back, then your club face is closing passed the ball. Do this for me: put your hand on a patch of sand as if it was a club face. Now drag it for a few inches forwards ... see the divot it caused? Now drag it a few inches but as you do that, hood your fingers and imitate a club face rolling over pushing your fingers ahead of the rest of your hand ... see how the divot narrows? That is what is happening.

Normally, we want a bit of a closed club face to get a draw if you want one. But a draw isn't always wanted, is it?

So, you need to learn to keep your hands ahead of the ball but not to always roll the face closed at impact and passed it.

I like this drill: address the golf ball without a club. Put your glove on and your right hand next to your right hip. Imagine the knuckle-side of your left hand is the club face and the logo of your glove is the direction indicator. Now swing back and through ... first a draw, so you roll the logo over (pointing left) at impact to get the ball going left ... now a fade, so you roll the logo under the ball (pointing right) to get the ball going right ... now straight, so you push the logo through the ball and into the through swing ...

Do you get the feeling? Now put your hands together and repeat the drill a few times for each shot shape.

Now hit some balls doing the same thing with your hands... a few draws, then a few fades and then a few straight shots. Now hit a few of each mixing them up ... Maybe get a friend to tell you which shot shape to hit.

As part of my pre-shot routine I always do that excercise to get the 'feel' of the shot so I can take that feel and movement and incorporate it into the execution of the swing.

Hope this helps you understand where the ball flight comes from and how you can train yourself to shape your shots at will.

[d.ortiz]

Re: Draw+divot

thank you so much. ill try it next time io got out. one more thing , is there a drill or do you have any tips to make sure you hit down and throught the ball(taking a good divot) thanks

[TeachingPro]

Re: Draw+divot

There are a few drills but they all focus on making certain you sweep the ball (you can take a divot if you want to) and finish the through swing. With someone who scores as well as you do at age 15, you shouldn't have a problem with a mental excercise.

Just focus on hitting through (not at) the golf ball and finish the through swing. In a full golf swing the golf ball should, as it so happens, get in the way of the golf club swing path. That is what it should feel like.

Do it without a golf ball 5 times and listen for the 'woosh' near where impact would be. Now hit 10 golf balls. Repeat the 5 or 6 practice swings and then another 10 shots. Do it again until it starts to feel a bit more natural.

Now hit a draw by hitting through, now hit a fade, a straight one, 2 fades, 4 draws and a straight one ...

[gord962]

Re: Draw+divot

draw vs fade:

It depends on the course you play. Most courses are set up with right handed slicers in mind, so a draw is usually a better shot to have as your natural flight. If there are a lot of doglegs which all go in one direction, than a fade or a draw that works with the doglegs would be advantageous. Other than that, there is no advantage of playing one vs another. A draw will have a bit lower ball flight and will have a bit more distance. A fade will go higher with less role, therefore less distance. I think it is very important to be able to hit BOTH. I try to keep my flight pattern straight as possible. That way it is easier to play a fade/slice or a draw/hook when the situation presents itself.

[TeachingPro]

Re: Draw+divot

Ricky,

A really good golfer needs every shot possible - a hook, a slice, a draw, a power fade, a soft fade ... you need them all and be able to execute them at will and with accuracy.

Let's deal with the natural shot shape first:
A good golfer has a natural shot shape, a shot shape than comes standard with the golfer, the swing and the box they both come in as I like to say. It doesn't really matter what shot shape you prefer to be honest, it just has to be natural and reliable. It has to be there, shot after shot after shot ... no thinking, no forcing.

If a draw isn't your standard shape, then it isn't - don't force a shot shape. If you do you are asking for serious trouble! It sounds like you're a bit afraid of a draw Ricky - scared it's going to turn into a hook and that's fine, so play for a fade. Setup on the left of target and fade it in there. Don't forget the draw, keep working on it. Learn it, practice it ...

There is a very simple method to shot making ... I teach it to a lot of students. The fundemental is very simple to acquire and it takes practice to refine, for your hands to work out what is a 10yd draw or a 30yd cut. I'll teach it to you if you like, on condition you promise to practice!

Let's deal with whether it is better to draw or fade:
Let's assume I was given 1 shot shape to choose from and I had to play only that 1 shot shape for the rest of my life. Which shape would I choose?

A fade, anyday, any time.

I'll explain why:
The bulk of scoring opportunities come from 165 yards (150 metres) and in. If you pinned every one of them, you simply have to score well unless you putt like an ass. It is absolutely vital you get those shots close.

A fade is always easier to control into a green for 3 reasons:
1. the flight elevation is normally higher, so it hits the green at a sharper angle so will be more inclined to slow down and stop quicker than a draw.
2. the slice/fade has more backspin than a hook or draw (they have more top spin) and stopping a ball with top spin is a problem.
3. a fade or slice ball will normally have a lower ball velocity because of a combination of both 1&2 and so it is easier to control for distance.

Imagine you had a pin, tight left. Go 160 yards out ... would you rather hit a 8-iron with backspin or top spin? Would you rather hit a higher shot or a lower shot? Would you rather hit a soft shot or a harder shot? I'd take a high, soft fade loaded with backspin anytime. Most tour pros would too ...

Take the fade and stick with it!

Let's deal with your comment about smooth / slow:

Smooth has bugger all to do with slow or fast. Smooth is rhythm, smooth is timing, smooth is a swing that's in synch. Nicky Price who has one of the quickest swings in golf - all his swings are smooth. Charles Howell III who has one of the most powerful swings in golf - all his swings are smooth too. But believe me, I have studied their swings and watched them in Orlando - they are FAST!!!!!!

A smooth swing isn't a slow swing. A slow swing is a slow swing ...

No matter what shot you're hitting (with the exception of a finesse lob or somethiong!) - hit the shot with power, hit the ball with timing and keep the movement sweet and in synch - that is a smooth swing. If you don't hit the shot with power, you won't get the strike you need and won't get the distance you're looking for and you won't have the control you want either, which is as important as distance.

Swing speed isn't power either. So many golfers come to me and say: "Man, I swing so bloody fast, all my mates say I should hit the ball 300 yards easy" and they show me this super quick swash of the golf club that's over before it began. I love watching them do this! Problem being: they swing like a marshmallow - good looking but lacks a bit of substance (another one of my sayings).

Power comes from two sources (in my opinion): firstly, delayed release of the club into impact and secondly, purety of the strike in the sweetspot. You can swing as hard and as fast as you like but unless you time your release and hit the sweet spot - you're wasting your energy, you really are.

You say you are thinning and fatting it when you swing hard becuase you're trying too hard. Well, yes in simple terms but not really. But the "trying too hard" isn't the problem, the problem is your timing. Your brain has to control so many things during the swing, it memorises the movements - like music. When everything is played in synch, all the elements work together and it sounds great (depending on what you listen to! ). If any one of the elements plays faster or slower, it's a bugger up unless everything else slows down or speeds up to keep it in synch again.

If your arms speed up to give the swing a bit extra, your hands, hips, knees, shoulders, arms, fingers, brain, eyes ... everything has to speed up. If your hips speed up for example you're gonna thin it big time or you're dig your way through to China in no time at all with those divots ... it is all out of synch.

A good swing is when everything is in synch.

I know it is a long reply, but I hope I covered everything and you understand it all. It's important that you understand all the dynamics of golf and the golf swing ... golf is not a 1-dimensional game.

[d.ortiz]

Re: Draw+divot

ya i usually hit a lot of knockdowns through the wind(i play in a lot of wind). it works well most of the time, every once in a while i draw it too much. how do you hit a knockdown cut that you would hit for backspin working into wind. and a regular cut not into wind but for more backspin.

[TeachingPro]

Re: Draw+divot

Playing in the wind always complicates things a little. If you know how to play in the wind, you've got an advantage.

When you draw or fade into the wind, depending on the strength of the wind, reduce the amount of spin you put on the ball. Say you're playing into a 1-club wind, cut your spin down by a 3rd, so instead of playing for a 30-yard draw, play for a 20-yard draw. If it's a 2-club wind, half it. If it's stronger than that, reduce it accordingly.

Do the same hitting into cross wind from the left. If it's a 1-club wind you want to hold the ball against, add a 3rd, etc.

To hit a spinning cut into the wind is actually pretty simple. This is what you have to do: take enough club to account for the wind, then take 1 more. Setup square to target, move the ball back in your stance to the centre and push your hands ahead of the ball and move your weight forward. You should have setup similar to a pitch & run-type shot but the ball in the centre of the stance.

Ok, now open the face a bit, not too much - remember into the wind, the spin is exaggerated!

Finally grip the club normally (keeping the face a bit open) and move the grip down an inch, maybe a bit more.

Now swing back to 3/4rs and on the downswing, keep a good tempo and balance. Don't swing any softer than normal, give it a good hit or else it will get nowhere, you've got an extra club anyway.

A cut without spin is also pretty simple. Take 1 club more than you normally would and setup with your hands in front of the ball. Let your grip go and open the face a bit. Now grip the club again keeping the open club face but with a "normal" grip. Now swing ... back to a full backswing and through ... but on the way through keep the wrists and hands soft - just get the club face back to impact as it was at address (a bit open). That will keep the swing path normal, open club face ... a good fade or cut with lots of backspin which comes from the 'forward impact' position.

It takes some work to get the feel for the swing through impact and how much to open the clubface, but practice it.

[mizunomp60]

Re: Draw+divot

I like this drill: address the golf ball without a club. Put your glove on and your right hand next to your right hip. Imagine the knuckle-side of your left hand is the club face and the logo of your glove is the direction indicator. Now swing back and through ... first a draw, so you roll the logo over (pointing left) at impact to get the ball going left ...

I'm trying to visualize this position with the logo going to the left. You say roll the logo over (pointing left). Would this left be left of the target line or would it be left where the logo is finishing pointed toward the ground. What is the finishing position of the logo in this drill?

...now a fade, so you roll the logo under the ball (pointing right) to get the ball going right ... now straight, so you push the logo through the ball and into the through swing ...

I'm also trying to visualize the position of this drill as well. By rolling the logo under the ball, what is the finishing position of the logo?

Any help making me visualize these moves would be very helpful as I don't want to practice anything that I don't have a proper understanding of. Thanks