Big loss of power with new swing.

[nemofish]

Hi all.

I have recently reconstructed my swing after reading the acclaimed Swing Machine Golf book. In essence the biggest change to my swing was to swing with my body and not with my arms and hands - I used to involve them a lot, now they are 'dead' as instructed in the book and simply follow my body.

My irons and drives are being hit more solidly than ever - the sound and crisp smooth feeling is unique to my golf swing so I presume the changes are doing good.

Trouble is I have lost immense power from this change - I have been told to expect more power by swinging with the body, but I am getting having to hit 3 more than I used to.

This is not desirable to say the least, but the solid strikes are - any ideas what I must be missing?

Ps: When I say I am losing distance, I really am - I play off 15 and am currently using 7 iron to hit 110 (I used to hit PW or SW)

[Golfinn]

Re: Big loss of power with new swing.

Sounds like you're lacking club head speed i.e. your swing speed is about the same the club head speed. Why? You might not get enough wrist action in the time of impact. This COULD BE because you're concentrating on your body movement too much and therefore forget to use your wrists in the end of your "coming down to the impact". At least this was my problem after the same procedure (trying to get more body movement in my swing).

So, it could be that the club and your left hand are already in line about 1' before the impact -> you lose lot of power there. I would say that you should video your swing and check that. There are couples of drills for getting the wrists action back, so I wouldnt be worried about this little step back in you game. It's all natural. It is very hard to add something in your swing and keep all the other "incrediences" there at the same time... Takes lot of pratise.

[nemofish]

Re: Big loss of power with new swing.

Sopunds like good advice, I will try it - I have not been thinking about my wrists at all as the book saiod to forget about them and let it all happen naturaly.

You say you changed your swing too also be more body - did it work out better for you in the long run?

I do seem to be hitting a lot more out of the centre of the club already.

[Golfinn]

Re: Big loss of power with new swing.

Well, I had my lesson about a month ago and ever since it's been a struggle Good shots, bad shots... not very confident with my shots at all...

But now, finaly, it's coming together (thanks for those drills) so that I dont have to think about my shots anymore and Im coming back to the "take the club and just hit it" thing that was working so well before. After about 12 rounds and couple of thousands of balls on the range... It's not easy.

Actually, this change was made only because of my driving. I have always been a long hitter (so that's not a problem), but suddenly my new driver wasnt delivering the goods for me. And THAT screwed up my iron game a bit too.

I guess what helped me to hit it well again in the end of thea day, was that I begun to start my down swing with my shoulders, not with my hands -> this enables me to keep the wrist angle (hands - club) all the way almost to the ball and then wrists: BUM!

But hey, Im not a pro, so Im just telling what helped me, ok? It just sounds that you might have the same problem, so I wanted to share my experiences in the same situation.

[gord962]

Re: Big loss of power with new swing.

Just to add a different perspective, how long have you been using this new swing? If this is something new, it will take a while for the muscles to fire at their optimal performance rate. Don't worry distance that for a while. Work with the new swing a while and once it becomes automatic, the distance will come with your confidence in the new swing.

[nemofish]

Re: Big loss of power with new swing.

Just to add a different perspective, how long have you been using this new swing? If this is something new, it will take a while for the muscles to fire at their optimal performance rate. Don't worry distance that for a while. Work with the new swing a while and once it becomes automatic, the distance will come with your confidence in the new swing.

You know what Gord - that is actually a very very good point.

My swing changed 7 days ago, and this was my first 18 holes. And last week I took 2 trips to the range - about 70 balls each time - all in all about 240 shots including my 103 today (103 is my worst score for 3 years

[stronz]

Re: Big loss of power with new swing.

I read that book too and I constructed my swing based on the philosophy described. The funny thing is that the first time after reading the book I went to the range and hit some monster shots. I mean I was hitting my 3i to 210 yards. I kept pinching myself to see If I was dreaming. It felt amazing. Now, I can't hit the 3i to 180 yards, what the hell am I saying, I can't hit it at all. Anyway, should the arms be completely powerless?

[Ian Hancock]

Re: Big loss of power with new swing.

I have to agree with Gord,

When you make swing changes you will no doubt loose power....strangely after afew great shots just to get you hooked on the new swing.

However the book is correct trying to manipulate the wrists is a dangerous game to play....in my opinion the wrists have not part in the swing they simply rotate naturally through the shot by the turning of the body.

Try swinging the golf club without moving the wrists....it impossible they have to rotate naturally........the wrists speed up with the amount of effort used by the body.

I maybe corrected but I think the golf swing is 50% legs 40% shoulders and 10% arms.

"The power will return when you are comfortable with the changes"


Ian.

[ph_kingston]

Re: Big loss of power with new swing.

Interesting thoughts Ian; they sparked some ideas of my own.

As someone who's struggled with a wristy swing, I agree that it's important to minimise wrist "snap" through the swing to gain last-minute power in the swing. Although it generates a lot of clubhead speed it's so difficult to time that it leads to inconsistent striking and accuracy.

At the same time it's important for the wrists to hinge correctly to build up elastic energy in the arms for release during the downswing and acceleration of the clubhead.

Ok, so now the legs, hips, shoulders, arms debate. In my view they all have an equally important role to play but in a defined sequence.

On the backswing, coil is generated by shoulder turn with the legs and hips effectively providing resistance to the turn to generate stored energy. At this stage of the swing the arms are effectively passive, just following the shoulder turn. So contribution here is maybe shoulders 50%, legs/hips 50%. The last part of the backswing is essentially wrist hinge so that's 100% arms.

Downswing should be initiated by the hips to start the uncoil, release the elastic energy and accelerate the clubhead. So the early part of the downswing is 100% legs/hips. The shoulders will rotate automatically with the trigger of the hips so they play and important but essentially passive role in the downswing. It's like a stretched elastic band, once it's been released it's going to return to it's original shape no matter what.

So in my view, after the downswing has been triggered, the controlling influence on contact is almost entirely the arms; accelerating the clubhead by gradual release of the wrist hinge and elastic energy in the forearms (rather than a late "snap"), hopefully resulting in whip-crack contact with the ball as the flex in the shaft kicks-in.

I therefore don't believe in "dead" arms/hands in the swing. As Ian says, it's impossible anyway!

Cheers

Paul

[nemofish]

Re: Big loss of power with new swing.

I therefore don't believe in "dead" arms/hands in the swing. As Ian says, it's impossible anyway!

Cheers

Paul

As far as I am aware 'Dead' is a fairly loose term. For me it means that you shouldn't use them consciously - being straight you are already using them, but if you keep your left arm straight and simply turn your body then your not really 'controlling your arms at all - they are following your upper body rotation. The same goes for the downswing - the hips turn, puling the body and then the arms fall into place without any conscious effort.

The arms are not dead - if they were they would be floppy and juts hang, but the only action I feel the have is being straight. Which must account to 10% like Ian said.

[Ian Hancock]

Re: Big loss of power with new swing.

I agree with both of you...............by 10% I simply mean the arms in the swing are no manipulated in anyway, of course they are used but as I said they are not part of the making of the swing.

Lets look closely at our arms.......the left arm should be an extention of the club all the way through the swing therefore not really doing anything only being started and pulled through by the shoulder.....the wrists have to bend natually,,try swinging a club without bending your wrists its silly.

Yes you can create power with the arms and wrists by over using them but there is no consistancy which is what we are all looking for.
Power comes from the body.....We hold an event every year for the disabled golfers, some have limbs missing but they hit the ball as good as me or you with plastic limbs.

I would guess that if both your arms were plastic bent at the elbow and wrist you could hit a perfect shot......



Ian.

[Mr_Change]

Re: Big loss of power with new swing.

I would say that with my swing, that my legs play alot with the power, my left leg pushes off from the ground as my right side is releashed creating more power. I will agree that 90% of power is from the body (legs, waist and shoulders) but not really sure the percent mixture.

I think that it's not just the wrist that need to be retained till the last min but your whole right side, shoulders should be coiled against your hips till hip high on the down swing, your hips need to be square while your shoulders are still at 45%. Your wrist will uncock naturaly as you straiten your right arm.