flipping

[dale47]

http://slam.canoe.ca/GolfUpdate/jun27_powerisiny.html

This is agreat article on hinge action .

[LowPost42]

Re: flipping

Yes, yes it is... and it has Greg's driving range warmup drill at the end!

[GregJWillis]

Re: flipping

Very interesting....

I agreed with:
1) Right wrist position and 2) The Drill at the end. (Obviously)

I disagree with:
1) The grip pressure being "firm". This leaves too much for interpretation. I like to gauge it for my students as a frame of reference. 1-10 scale, 1 is the club can be pulled out of your hands and 10 is a small drop of blood starts to run down the shaft and we call the "jaws of life" to pry them open. You want a 2. Firm hands I am guessing he means is about a 5. Hand strength and grip pressure are very different. The wrist cock and release can be aggressive, or strong, or full, or whatever you like to call it while still maintaining a light grip pressure. The light pressure allows the hands to achieve their full range of motion smoothly and evenly. Firm or tight grips will not have the same elasticity because there are parts of the hands that are being shared in the grip pressure and the wrist actions. But this is again an interpretation thing. What might be a 2 to someone might really be a 5 to another. I like to have the student try them all. They always say they like the light pressure best. Probably because it just feels better and is easier to repeat and that is most of the reasons we play, for repeatability. And they all agreed (except 1 - a pro hockey player) that they hit the ball better with the 2. When would you possibly increase pressure? In thick grass, be sure that the club is not going to slip in the hands when it is met with an unusual force on impact.

2) The Big / Small muscle theory. The idea that a tooth brush can only be used by the hands and therefore a golf swing should also only be (what 75% was said) used by the hands is completely ridicules. The drill at the end points out that the hands generated all this power and distance. But let’s talk about it here. The drill is using the arms and shoulder rotation. These 2 "other" parts allow the hands to add to the sum of force on the ball. I love this drill because you stay in balance with the feet together and the hip rotation is taken out (I have it so the feet point out to 45 degrees to simulate your hips at the impact position), but the overall goal is the same to isolate the correct action of the hands in the swing through impact. You end up hitting it about half the distance. I can hit the driver about 150 yards and a 7i about 100. But we are using the shoulders, arms and hands together (the article actually does not say shoulders, only the hands and arms, but I contend that the shoulders have to rotate...they are attached to 2 arms and it would be impossible not to let then rotate at least slightly in this drill). According to my guess at a calculation here, those 3 elements make up 50% of the power. If all being equal in those elements, you only get 17% each. Lets even say that the hands are dominate in this part of the system and weight it to 25% hands, 12.5% arms and 12.5% shoulders at best. The lower body now is the reason we get the remaining 50% power. The minute you add a full hip rotation, all the other parts are granted and propelled to a greater acceleration by adding their individual isolated power getting you the wonderful "whip" affect. The beautiful thing about this is that you really don't feel it, it is a sneaky power. So I can understand why the true feeling in your head is that most of the power came from the hands because they are the ones making last contact and feeling the full whipping of the rest of the body’s actions.

(Remember, there are so many ways to describe the swing, and each is unique in both interpretation of the listener and explanation in the teacher that I respect all points. This was not at all meant to discredit or devalue Mark's teachings. It was meant to discuss the differences in understandings. I accept and look forward to all criticisms in my writings)

[dale47]

Re: flipping

Your reply's seem strait out of the PGA teaching manual. Maybe that why handicaps keep going up even with the advent of all the equipment advances.

As far as grip pressure goes.....Moe Norman (the greatest ball striker ever) often said he tried to draw blood when taking his grip. A bit to firm for me also..but I believe the error on a normal shot should be a bit to firm. Most of the threads you get are people asking you about "flipping"...why not educate their hands.
If the the hands do what they're supposed to...the body has no choice but follow. Grab a baseball..**** it up.....smack the hell out of it...did you worry if your hips were clearing....was your left arm strait....was your right foot releasing..etc.. I'm not saying the body plays no part, it supports ! If you never learn to use your hands in this game.....you will never play it well.

[GregJWillis]

Re: flipping

HDCPs are going up because it's the fastest growing sport in the world. The more players there are starting to take the game up, the more high HDCP will be averaged.

Moe was a great striker I agree. A bit of an excentric though...walked off a tournament after hitting 3 consecutive flags. Was ahead by 2 in another in the last hole and purposfully hit into a trap just to make it interesing...stuff like that....unusual. And so was his swing. His grip is deep in the palms of his hands and reduces the wrist flex, which is why the presure does not matter there. So yes, if you want to play his "Natural" swing, grip it till it bleeds.

As far a baseball goes, the reason you have to be very handy is because there is a ball being hurled at you and you have to react quickly. Last time I remember playing golf, the ball just sat there.

But good discussions!

[dale47]

Re: flipping

Not good discussions...great discussions...I love your passion !

[gord962]

Re: flipping

I have had a couple discussions with co-workers tackling the difference between golf and baseball mechanics. What it always boils down to is a moving ball. The other major difference are usually accuracy and distance control.

[dale47]

Re: flipping

One of the major inhibitors of accuracy in the golf swing is thru us trying to CONTROL it. Harvey Penick used to have his students drive to the ocean in Texas and drive balls into it. When they'd report back he'd ask how they hit it. Almost everyone of them said the'd never hit it that good...strait and lonnng ! Why...cuz they were'nt trying to control anything...they just let it fly ! Learn to control the clubface (the hands control the clubface) and yoy will be playing great golf.

[GregJWillis]

Re: flipping

Very much agreed! And thanks. I get worried folks take these discussions too seriously.