Hitting ground before Ball

[BigdazUK]

Re: Hitting ground before Ball

Is starting with my weight 80/20 on my right foot just a temporary drill or shall i do that all the time? I thought the idea was to start with the weight on the left and and shift it to the right and back again. I'm so wrong arn't I??

[LowPost42]

Re: Hitting ground before Ball

Ernie is largely a 1 plane swinger. His hips stay still, and his shoulders and arms go around his spine. He bends over more at the waist/hips to get his club to the ground.

You are a 2 plane swinger. Your hips bump/nudge forward on your downswing to get your body over your left leg. Your hips and body turn around your spine, but your arms get lifted up. SO your body goes around while your arms go up and down - the 2 planes.

No, it's not bad to be obsessed with golf - look at me.

I used to have a huuuuuuuuuuuge hip slide back combined with a shoulder dip (creating a false sense of coil). I solved the shoulder dip first, then went on to hit balls at 30 yard increments from hitting fat. The ol' table drill solved the slide.

Now that I've converted to a 1 plane swing, any lateral movement of my hips destroys my ability to hit the ball - just like it would destroy Ernie. Thankfully, I've done a great job of keeping those hips still.

[BigdazUK]

Re: Hitting ground before Ball

I'm 100% baffled. I'm gonna seach the internet and read about this 2 plane swing thing. I'm not sure i understand it at all. I'm not gonna be able to sleep tonight unless I can fully understand where i'm going wrong.

[gord962]

Re: Hitting ground before Ball

Is starting with my weight 80/20 on my right foot just a temporary drill or shall i do that all the time? I thought the idea was to start with the weight on the left and and shift it to the right and back again. I'm so wrong arn't I??

You should always start with your weight on your right side if taking a full swing. Not as extreme as 20/80, but definitely 60% for irons and up to 70% for your woods. If you are starting with your weight on your left foot, that is where the slide will come from.

At address, your weight should be more than 1/2 on your right foot, spine angled away from the target, right shoulder lower than your left.

[BigdazUK]

Re: Hitting ground before Ball

I now understand the difference between a 2 plane swing and a 1 plane swing. i am definitly a 2 plane swing. I notice Gord that in another thread you say you are a big fan of the 2 plane swing. Why is that, what are the benefits?
Are many pro's 2 plane swingers like me or is it more an amature thing.

LowPost, why did you decide to switch to a 1 plane swing? Should I??

[LowPost42]

Re: Hitting ground before Ball

I'm 100% baffled. I'm gonna seach the internet and read about this 2 plane swing thing. I'm not sure i understand it at all. I'm not gonna be able to sleep tonight unless I can fully understand where i'm going wrong.

Bigdaz, most golfers - in fact, probably 90% or better worldwide swing 2 plane. It's the classic golf swing.

The one plane swing is a relatively new concept. It's more like a baseball swing in that the arms go around the body. The club always looks laid off at the top. The hands move beside (and to a small degree, behind) the body. The golfer is more bent over at address and throughout the swing.

The two plane swing, by contrast, has the arms going up while the body goes around. The club is much closer to vertical (the two plane swing is steeper than the one plane), and the hands never get beside or behind the body. The golfer is more upright at address and throughout the swing.

Does that help?

[BigdazUK]

Re: Hitting ground before Ball

It does thanks. I'm getting really paranoid about my swing now. I've only recently start taking golf seriously and I've spent countless hours this year making great improvments and getting more consistant. I was worried for a while I've been going down the wrong road. Golf is so fustrating. I just wanna get better I'm prepared to put the time in I just wanna be sure the time is being well spent.

[LowPost42]

Re: Hitting ground before Ball

I understand your desire completely. I have to be particularily careful of 'golf advice' now, because the vast majority is aimed at the two plane swing (and why not, it's the most common). It's no wonder I couldn't seem to swing with any consistency, as I was a natural one-planer, and was trying to implement two plane practices into my swing. I must have looked like some crazy snake-killer on the golf course!

[BigdazUK]

Re: Hitting ground before Ball

Your a step ahead of me lowpost. It's half the battle knowing what you've got to work with in the first place. I'm gonna try that pool table drill you mentioned exept i haven't got a pool table. I'm sure i'll find something similar

[Ryan_s3]

Re: Hitting ground before Ball

Just on a side note ,ernie els is actually a 2 plane swing he's similar to me in that he rotates his forearms very early then lifts the club on plane,i only wish i had his downswing.
It's very frustrating not knowing what your meant to be practicing ,i go to a local pro who coachs a few on the european tour and he doesn't seem 100%.

[SlicersHell]

Re: Hitting ground before Ball

Just looking at these pictures of Ernie, he doesn't move a millimeter

That's not true. He's definitely moving, not via swaying or sliding, but returning his hips via a "2-inch" bump toward the target to start the downswing. The movement is more subtle with Els, but look at any pro swinging and you'll see that hip move toward the target a bit as the weight transfers to the left.

With something as fast as the golf swing, though, it's impossible to consciously achieve such a small movement by focusing on that part itself. That's just the effect of the weight going onto his left side to start the downswing, which in turn drops the club into "the slot". This is what the two-plane swing you're so confused about is all about. Look at Jim Furyk if you're unclear on it. He has the most pronounced plane shift in the history of golf...be sure not to try and copy his swing exactly though.

...and actually, Ernie Els is labeled as a one-plane swinger. I'm not sure I see that way either, but take a look at this really good Golf Digest article on the whole one-plane vs. two-swing issue:

www.golfdigest.com/instruction/index.ssf?/instruction/gd200505swingplane1.html

I think you'll find it really interesting...

[LowPost42]

Re: Hitting ground before Ball

BigDaz, any table will work, or a small fence, or anything that approaches hip high that you can stand beside.

[BigdazUK]

Re: Hitting ground before Ball

Thanks for the article to read SlicersHell It was interesting. Looking again at the pictures of Ernie I can't see how he can have a 1 plane swing. He's definitly swinging on 2 planes. It's imposible to get into the position at the top of the swing that he does swinging on 1 plane. I actually think the 1 plane swing might be a bit of a myth. Anybody know of a tour pro who does have a 1 plane swing as an example?

I see what you mean about Ernie's movement. He does move on the downswing but he certainly doesn't move on backswing which i think i where my problem is.

Is the 2" bumb towards the target the first movement to make on the downswing? I like to think about starting the downswing by droping my arms.

[Simon Woo]

Re: Hitting ground before Ball

Towards the bottom of this page they did split some of the pros by their swing planes :

http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/

[BigdazUK]

Re: Hitting ground before Ball

I see Ernie is in the 1 plane list. Maybe i'm not fully understanding but his swing looks 2 plane to me. I can understand Sam Snead being a 1 plane swing looking at these images: http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/87698

Sam definitely has a more bent over stance and rotates his spine and his arms rotate round the spine. He has a flatter swing plane than Ernie does. Ernie is more upright and definitly rotates his spine and lifts the arms. Am I not quite grasping the concept?