AJ Truth about golf-really?

[mr3856a]

Re: AJ Truth about golf-really?

if you focus on the three things AJ teaches you, execution of a good shot will surely come. Its when you try all the extra stuff that screws up your contact.

I could not agree with you any more. I am a living, breathing example of EXACTLY what you say here. I worked on AJ's stuff and had absolutely remarkable - and immediate - results. Then I went about trying to "fix" my swing. WHY, LORD, WHY????

Now I'm more screwed up than I was pre-AJ, and I have to forget everything else, watch the videos again, and go back to a strictly-AJ routine.

This guy is the real deal in my opinion.

[mr3856a]

Re: AJ Truth about golf-really?

Yikies.. I've been reading books by David Leadbetter, and also Nick Faldo (who happens to quote David a lot anyway). I am worried that I might be picking up contradictory tips... Am quite surprised actually, cos I always thought that the one-plane is "new school", yet all the big names that I know off now seem to be actually using and teaching the one-plane swing?

Hey, two things: it does seem like a lot of guys are going to one plane. It is Hank Haney's dogma. Now that you see it working for Tiger, I'm sure it's going to get more and more popular. VJ, Davis Love, Ernie Else, Sergio, Retief, Tiger - all 1 planers.

Second, you should be woried about contradictory tips. I'm a one plane swing and went to a weaker grip with disastrous results. Went back to strong, and viola as they say. Anyway, this is already the subject of other forums, but...

http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/index.ssf?/instruction/gd200505swingplane1.html

You may have to highlight the link and copy and paste it into the address bar; when I click on it it doesn't work. (Or go to http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/ and it should be at the very bottom of the page).

That's a great starter for the difference between one and 2 plane.

In addition, I can't say enough about Ben Hogan's "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf." It is a MUST READ. Seriously.

[gord962]

Re: AJ Truth about golf-really?

Well aren't you lucky Rick - you have your own coach. Most people here are trying to learn this stuff on their own so the info is helpful. Besides, one or two swing plane, it is helpful to know this stuff to better understand WHY you are doing things one way or another.

[mr3856a]

Re: AJ Truth about golf-really?

Besides, one or two swing plane, it is helpful to know this stuff to better understand WHY you are doing things one way or another.

Bingo, in addition to the fact that knowing which you are allows you to work more effectively with your coach by giving you the ability to ask more pertinent questions. I have a coach, too, and we've never spoken about swing plane either, but he knows which I am, I know which I am, and that allows us to communicate much better and more effectively.

[Simon Woo]

Re: AJ Truth about golf-really?

Doesn't "hammering the nail" contradict the fact that you should not be hitting the ball and that the ball should be just in the way of the swing?

[Matt10]

Re: AJ Truth about golf-really?

that's because according to AJ you hit the ball with the club not the swing.

the club is a tool and you hammer the nail in.

peace,

m.l

[Simon Woo]

Re: AJ Truth about golf-really?

I think the danger arises when one tries to pick up some new tips or drills from the internet or magazines etc, (and we all know articles and tips never precede with a disclaimer on the swing plane ) and it turns out to be an inappropriate tip.

[Simon Woo]

Re: AJ Truth about golf-really?

that's because according to AJ you hit the ball with the club not the swing.

the club is a tool and you hammer the nail in.

peace,

m.l

Thanks for sharing Matt. When I see it that way, I know I will run the danger of using too much wrist, and also I am not sure if I will be able to get the full distance out of my clubs?

[gord962]

Re: AJ Truth about golf-really?

Doesn't "hammering the nail" contradict the fact that you should not be hitting the ball and that the ball should be just in the way of the swing?

When hammering a nail, are you just trying to hit the head of the nail, or are you trying to drive it into the wood? To drive the nail into the wood you must have your hand ahead of the hammer head and accelerate through the nail. Just like the golf ball, the nail should be in your swing path, not just trying to hit the head of the nail.

[MJE77]

Re: AJ Truth about golf-really?

I've seen quite a bit of this AJ video today and he seems to talk more about what is going on than showing you how to swing. Then he just gives you a couple of simple ideas.

I think most ppl go into far too much detail when learning to swing and you get different opinions on what is right from different pro's. I think the most important thing for hitting the ball well is timing and tempo along with good coordination.

I took my younger bro to a par 3 course today and he's only ever played pitch 'n' putt in his life and never had to do a full swing and never used more than a 7 iron before. On this par 3 there is a hole that is 207 yards for example so it's very new to him.

Anyway, he tees off first and lands it on the green with a 7 iron and gets par whilst I missed the green and ended up with a bogey. I was shocked that he hit that shot and thought it must be luck until after 3 holes (the 3rd is the 207 yarder) I'm on +1 and so is he! He finishes on 32 through the first 9, two better than me and I was doing pretty well being only a beginner myself.

The back 9 he's pretty much the same but then took a disastrous 9 on one hole and finished on 72, I finished on 71 as I had a couple of bad holes myself (found the water on one). My best score on there after about 10 goes was 67 and if it wasn't for that one bad hole he had he would have equalled it his first time on a course!

Now this leads me to believe that golf isn't as hard as we make it. He naturally has good coordination like myself, we're the type that are good at all sports. But he has no idea other than to bend the knees and keep his head down how to swing a club yet he got 8 pars today his first time on a golf course. So therefore the simple things like being relaxed and swinging smoothly with a good, natural tempo and letting your brain's coordination do it's thing is more important than going into great detail on what part of your body should be doing what etc. etc.

Even tho he didn't know what the shoulders were supposed to do they were naturally rotating correctly as were his hips without any thought about it whatsoever. Whereas if he'd been to a teacher first that told him to think about these things he'd probably have been terrible as he wouldn't have swung so smooth and rhythmically.

I know now that I'm never going to a pro for lessons other than speciality shots (like bunker shots or something) because they all seem to have variations of what is correct and you can find any info on the net for free if you look.

Wow that went on longer than I thought, sorry

[gord962]

Re: AJ Truth about golf-really?

I disagree. I too am naturally gifted (to an extent) and I was always one of the best players in any sport I applied myself to. I was okay at golf, self taught and played to about a 16 handicap. Not too bad. The problem was that with the swing flaws I had, there was little to no chance of getting any better. There are a lot of natural movements involved, but a GOOD instructor will work differently with a natural athlete than with someone who is not so gifted. I never changed my swing drastically, but a few key things one of my pro partners pointed out allowed me to go from a 16 to an 8. I never took lessons, but it took a trained eye to point out the flaws. Once I understood what to look for, I was then able to self correct my swing faults. Don't discount an instructor before you visit one. They aren't there to completely rebuild your swing (unless you ask them to), only to point out errors. If your brother has a nice, natural swing, the pro won't expain how to fix it or the mechanics behind that, only the problems that need to be fixed. An instructor is just like a mechanic - they won't rebuild your engine if you come in for a tire repair.

edit: I forgot one of the most important points to having an instructor - if you are self taught, and you teach yourself something incorrect, it is much more difficult to forget the incorrect way and learn the correct method...

[ubizmo]

Re: AJ Truth about golf-really?

Now this leads me to believe that golf isn't as hard as we make it. He naturally has good coordination like myself, we're the type that are good at all sports. But he has no idea other than to bend the knees and keep his head down how to swing a club yet he got 8 pars today his first time on a golf course. So therefore the simple things like being relaxed and swinging smoothly with a good, natural tempo and letting your brain's coordination do it's thing is more important than going into great detail on what part of your body should be doing what etc. etc.

I guess how hard it is depends on how good you want to get at it. I've been playing for two years and my best-ever score on a par 3 course is 39. So I would be very happy to play as well as you and your brother, even though I've probably been playing longer than both of you. For me, to get to your level is pretty hard. But for the two of you, maybe getting to the next level (which I may never see) is hard.

[mr3856a]

Re: AJ Truth about golf-really?

There are a lot of natural movements involved, but a GOOD instructor will work differently with a natural athlete than with someone who is not so gifted.

Great point. And you're right.

And hey, the rest of us who have been playing this game for a while all know this guy's brother will be throwing clubs within 2 months

I was the same - natural swing, broke 100 pretty quick (obviously on a full-length course), but the further you get into this game, the more you're going to realize you will eventually have to move beyond "keep your head down" to improve.

[MJE77]

Re: AJ Truth about golf-really?

I guess how hard it is depends on how good you want to get at it. I've been playing for two years and my best-ever score on a par 3 course is 39. So I would be very happy to play as well as you and your brother, even though I've probably been playing longer than both of you. For me, to get to your level is pretty hard. But for the two of you, maybe getting to the next level (which I may never see) is hard.

Do you mean 39 over par? As 39 on a par 3 course would be -15.

I kind of agree with you gord but I've had a bad experience with a pro who gave me a couple of lessons and has put me off them.

I don't know if you have read my intro post I made but I explained how I took up golf 4-5 years ago in about May. I took a lesson after a couple of weeks and he started with grip and posture etc. I took onboard some of the things he did like grip but ignored some things as he had me standing so wide with my knees pointing in so far it was like I was having a baby and standing trying to keep it from coming out if that pictures it for you. I was buying all the magazines and reading the instructional articles and was practicing those at the range too.

After two months and 2 lessons later I was doing pretty well. I'd only been to a full size course twice but had been to this par 3 course about 8 times and shot under 70 the last 4 times on the trot with the last two both being 67's. So I thought I'd have a 4th lesson, this was now about the beginning of sept.

He had gotten me to shift my weight on the 3rd lesson for power and I was hitting it at a mid 'cap's ranges (I even hit a pitching wedge 150+ yards onto somebody's garden at the pitch n putt lol). So on this 4th lesson he decides my arms should be more compact for more power and starts messin with the way my elbows bend and stuff. On the half hour lesson it was workin fine and I was hitting it fairly straight and miles.

The next day I went to a 9 holer and came home after the 3rd hole because I literally could not hit the ball. I was hitting a foot before the ball and after about the 5th swing I got angry and went home.

I got my clubs out again about 3 weeks ago as my best m8 took up the game in the spring and had finally talked me into coming. I'm now addicted Through a couple of trips to the range I've got a fairly decent swing going again but I won't be going for lessons. I'd rather read articles on the net and try those out or just let the swing come with practice than get lessons from somebody who may be teaching me things that won't work for me.

If you look at the pro's play, they have the fundamentals basically the same but they all have different looking swings that are right for them and I don't think we should have a teacher force us into doing things that may not work for us as an individual.

Btw, I've just been to that one plane/two plane link and found that very interesting. At the top of my backswing my left arm is pretty much parallel to my shoulder line and I stand quite far from the ball so I guess I'm a one-planer? I stand quite upright tho but I think that's coz I'm 5'7 and have to to keep the sole of the club flat on the ground.

Edit: What I meant to say was that pro's should see what is wrong with your swing and do the little corrections rather than rebuild your whole swing to how they think a swing should be. If they do the latter they could totally ruin some good players. I guess I just had a bad teacher.

[gord962]

Re: AJ Truth about golf-really?

MJE77 - You said you stand a fair distance from the ball - do your arms hang naturally from your shoulders?

Obviously what the pro was teaching (initially) was working quite well. Small adjustments here and there were working fine. When he started adjusting technique is where you had troubles. Correct?

So on this 4th lesson he decides my arms should be more compact for more power and starts messin with the way my elbows bend and stuff. On the half hour lesson it was workin fine and I was hitting it fairly straight and miles.

The next day I went to a 9 holer and came home after the 3rd hole because I literally could not hit the ball. I was hitting a foot before the ball and after about the 5th swing I got angry and went home.

The pro was doing a great job and so was the student, until the 9 hole experience.

If you are reaching now, you will gain more power with your arms hanging naturally from your shoulders. The pro was probably onto something if it was initially working, just sounds like you didn't put enough time into practicing what he was teaching. It takes Tiger months to fine tune small pieces of his game, so you can bet that to get all the little pieces to work 100% naturally you will also need to put practice time into your game. 1/2 hour at a lesson isn't near enough for your muscles to remember everything. Making a change like eliminating your reach takes quite a while (trust me!!!). No offense, but it sounds like you simply gave up too fast. You seemed to be on the path to single digit handicap land....