Club face and cocking club back--2 methods

[irhyper2]

Re: Club face and cocking club back--2 methods

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1. The approved way: The hands turn and the club face opens up, so that the cocking of the club is accomplished first by pointing the toe of the club to the sky and then pulling back so that by the end of the backswing the club face is on the swing plane and the toe is pointing to the target line. Since at address and impact, the club face is square to the target line, this means that the club face must rotate 90* during the backswing, then 90* again during the downswing.


I have read every post regarding this thread, and must confess that I am still confused on the proper wrist cock, arm rotation etc. The way I think I understand it is this. During the backswing, the left forearm and hand (wrist) rotate CLOCKWISE, which opens the clubface slightlt at the top, and the wrist will cock naturally, leaving the left wrist flat (no cup). The clockwise rotation of the forearms on the backswing makes it necessary to rotate them "counter clockwise" on the downswing creating clubhead speed. Is that in any way what you guys are talking about. I tried this yesterday and shot the best score I have ever shot.

[ubizmo]

Re: Club face and cocking club back--2 methods

Simon, I wouldn't say "anything goes" as far as the golf swing is concerned, but it is abundantly clear that there are more than a few ways to swing a golf club effectively, and no one has ever proven that one way is superior for all golfers.

I mentioned Allen Doyle. He leads the senior tour now and was the oldest PGA rookie, joining the tour at age 48. You really have to see his swing. It's HIDEOUS! His backswing and downswing aren't on the same plane, or even close. I don't think the club head ever goes higher than his head, and it loops--hard to describe but ugly. Doyle has never had a swing coach because no one can begin to deal with his swing. The same was true of Trevino. And of course Moe Norman. Maybe we should start a separate thread on "ugly ducklings."

At the top of my backswing (which my golfing partner just informed me was just short of horizontal), my club face is pointing skyward and to the rear, roughly in a direction directly away from where the golf ball is resting.

Irhyper2, don't look to THIS thread, or anything I write, to learn the "right" way to do anything. What you described is indeed the approved/standard way to bring the club back. It's just not the way I'm doing it because I was having trouble getting it to work for me. So I'm trying a different way.

[ubizmo]

Re: Club face and cocking club back--2 methods

All three swing types you need the left hip out a little at address, the Reverse K Position for balance.

The Test:

Grab a driver from a square stance w/o the lead hip being out and swing it back to about shoulder high, club parallel to the ground and have a friend to push down on the shaft of the club and you will fall over sideways.

Stick the lead hip out with the hands back and your friend can push down on the shaft and you are in balance.

***Just a little side-note, the people that I teach does not need the Reverse K and then there is no fighting of the lead hip and trying to get the back hip to come around on the forward swing and soon little 12 to 14 year old girls are out driving their dads who have been playing the game for years.

Tried the test and it works as you say. But why don't your pupils need the reverse K? What are they doing different?

Experiment, so you can learn and build confidence in your swing and all the time you are learning.

That's the truth. But at some point you have to commit to a particular way of swinging the club and just stick with it. Otherwise the search for the Right Swing never ends.

[ubizmo]

Re: Club face and cocking club back--2 methods

I've wondered about the question of fit between golf swing and body type. I'm 6'1" but I only wear 30" inseam trousers, which is unusual for someone my height. Does that matter to my golf swing? I have no clue. I have pretty big arms and chest, and some belly too. My feet turn out, duck-like, so that my wife says she can pick me out of a crowd from the back by the way I walk.

Last year I tried for several months to learn the Moe Norman "natural golf" system, but couldn't get the hang of it. I don't think it was the wide stance that bothered me as much as the flatter swing plane. It requires me to lean forward more and reach for the ball more. Well, I found that this was trouble, because I'd always rise up and/or pull back when I swung the club. I needed a more upright position.

It's funny you mention pointing the toes in... I tried that yesterday and proceeded to hit a beautiful shot with a 5 iron. Perfect contact, great distance, straight. Then I tried it again and topped it 20 yards.

I also tried lead foot square to target, trailing foot angled in. This has possibilities. More experiments needed.

I'm not sure how to do the "outside weighting" with the feet and knees. Is it just a matter of squaring the feet to the target and rolling onto the outside edge of the feet a bit?

I palyed 18 holes this morning and committed to swinging with the club face square to the swing path. I shot 114, which is better than my usual 120, and that's with 10 penalty strokes, not for bad hits but bad golf decisions; I.e., using too much club and losing the ball in the bushes. It's not great but progress is progress.

[Simon Woo]

Re: Club face and cocking club back--2 methods

Really, so many different opinions and advice has been given over the years, that it really seems like anything goes, as long as it fits you For me, I am trying to stick to the classic swing (like you Todd, I never felt comfortable bending my body so steep down and swinging in such a flat plane), and still trying to master the finer points (like getting the rotation, coil and torque). As a beginner 2 months into the game, I was hitting the 7-iron straight and consistently into the 100m (100yd) sign. I know I am missing the finer points mentioned about, which should give me about 30-40yds more on average. I am into my 3rd month of golf now, and this is what I have been trying to do. Once I get that worked out, and can still maintain the consistency, then I think this would be MY swing and I will stick to it from now on Will work on the woods and driver, and from there will be working on my short game.

Sounds like a plan?

[mr3856a]

Re: Club face and cocking club back--2 methods

"For example, a very strong grip (2-3 knuckles) is the suggested grip for the one plane swing."

I hope nobody minds if I sort of change the subject a bit, but I just noticed this comment and it piqued my interest.

About 2 months ago I was ready to quit (for about the 20th time this summer) and took to video to figure things out. The video I made of myself showed terrible posture (slumped shoulders) being the big problem, causing an out-to-in swing path. Well, I adjusted my posture and took another video and noticed that when I kept my spine erect, I had a very natural 1-plane swing.

But although it looks better, I am have a HORRIBLE time closing the clubface. My grip has always been very neutral. If I'm a 1-planer, you are saying I should have a very strong grip?

Thanks and sorry for the change in topics.

[Simon Woo]

Re: Club face and cocking club back--2 methods

No worries mr3856a, this thread has already become a smorgesbord of everything related to the swing

Indeed, a neutral to strong grip has been recommended for the one-plane swing, while a weak to neutral grip is recommended for a two-plane swing. If you go to golfdigest, you will be able to find a whole article comparing the differences between the two planes. Here's the link -> http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio...ingplane1.html

[mr3856a]

Re: Club face and cocking club back--2 methods

Hey,

I went to a real strong grip yesterday at the range - almost 3 knuckles - and voila! Goodbye to the shanks, goodby to the slice! It just amazes me how such a minor, simple change can make such a huge difference in this game!

Thanks for the help!