One-plane or two-plane

[ph_kingston]

There seems to be a lot of posts about one-plane and two-plane swings at the moment. Can anyone tell me the difference between them? Secondly, without video swing analysis how can you tell which type of swing you have? And I guess lastly, does it really matter?

Thanks for your help

Paul

[auldyn]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

I would like to see this post given much more serious discussion instead of the trivia we get from time to time.

[pnearn]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

Here's my take on it

The one plane golf swing is all about connection. Think Vijay. Here the left arm never leaves the chest and the shoulders turn the club back and through. The swing plane is flatter since the arms dont lift the club. This is what Hogan taught in his 5 fundametals I beleive

The 2 plane golf swing is what most pros will teach you nowadays. The swing is initiated by the arms and there is a disconnect between the arms and the chest early in the backswing. The club will stay outside the line of the hands going back and be lifted up into a steeper finish position. On the downswing there has to be a 'move' of some sort to get the club inside the plane and re-connect the arms and chest at impact. David Toms is a good one to look at

I *thiunk* I have a one plane swing. In that I very much try and stay connected and not swing my arms at all. All I try and do is turn my upper body back and through and get width in my takeaway. To me theres far less moving parts this way and the transition move you need in a two plane swing just never worked for me. In fact any time I tried to lead with my lower body in any way (hip bump, knee drive etc) I just could never hit the ball well. One plane means the shoulders just turn the club back and through and I find it much easier

Of couse I could be talking out me preverbial here so hopefuly Greg and Gord etc will correct me

[pnearn]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

This might also help explain it

http://www.mountainweb.com/oneplaneg...two_plane.html

[auldyn]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

At address I reach more for the ball. At address top of grip should just touch at a point just above left kneecap. I find this gives me much more width in the back swing. After impact I like to feel my belt buckle is at right angle to target line.Basically I feel much more uninhibited and feel I am freewheeling through the ball.

[chessbum]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

If you really want to get all the facts, I suggest a new book out on the subject. I have read it and it is pretty good. Peter Jacobsen is a big star in the book since he changed his swing from 2-plane to 1-plane.

The book:

The Plane Truth for Golfers

by Jim Hardy

I got mine at Border's Books

It just came out in 2005.

Chessbum...

[LowPost42]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

Hi Paul,

The difference between one plane and two plane is about where the arms and hands go in the swing.

One plane swing refers to swinging the arms around the body. The arms and the body swing on the same plane - hence one plane.

In a regular (classic) swing, the body goes around, and the arms go up and down.

To feel the difference:

1PS: Bend over more at address (think almost 45º), weld your lead arm to your chest and turn your shoulders around your spine. Downswing - keep the arms 'de-energized', and turn the shoulders back around the spine. Don't dip!

2PS: Stand more upright at address. Your arms have to feel alive, as they pick the club up on the backswing, and keep the club in front of the body as much as possible.

If you feel as though the club goes 'way behind you', you're most likely swinging one plane.



Pnearn's got a pretty good take on the 1PS - including the main difference (where the arms go), and swing faults (lateral movement).

Arms and Hands
1PS: The arms and hands go beside the body (and in some cases, behind).
2PS: The arms and hands stay in front of the body (ie between the body and the target line).

Hips
1PS: The hips should stay still going both directions - both back and through.
2PS: The hips should be still going back, but some lateral movement towards target on the downswing is expected and encouraged.

Spine
1PS: The spine should be pretty straight. The 1PS is a wide swing, and spine tilt adds un-necessary width.
2PS: The spine should be tilted. This helps to keep the body behind the ball, and adds width to the swing.

I hope this helps.

[ubizmo]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

1PS: Bend over more at address (think almost 45º), weld your lead arm to your chest and turn your shoulders around your spine. Downswing - keep the arms 'de-energized', and turn the shoulders back around the spine. Don't dip!

2PS: Stand more upright at address. Your arms have to feel alive, as they pick the club up on the backswing, and keep the club in front of the body as much as possible.

Spine
1PS: The spine should be pretty straight. The 1PS is a wide swing, and spine tilt adds un-necessary width.
2PS: The spine should be tilted. This helps to keep the body behind the ball, and adds width to the swing.

Doesn't what you say about the spine contradict what you say above? If, in the 1PS, you bend over more, then your spine must be more tilted--unless you know a way to bend over without tilting your spine!

[LowPost42]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

Good question Todd.

Generally speaking, there's two spine terms. Tilt and angle.

When someone talks about their spine tilt, it's a lateral tilt - either towards or away from the target. This is similar to leaning left or right.

When someone talks about their spine angle, it's the forward/backwards tilting (bending over or standing up).

So, in the 2PS, your spine angle is upright, and your spine tilt is away from target.

In the 1PS, your spine angle is more bent over, and your spine tilt is centered or square (neither towards or away from target).

The one other thing that a 1PS may do is contradict a static fitting chart. I find, because I'm more bent over, that 2º flat works better for my club lie. A static fitting chart says I should be either standard or 1º up. (And the Ping Web Fit figures I should be 2º up).

[auldyn]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

THe stance for one plane swing cannot be over emphasisied.Hogan insisted that the rear end sticks out ,and on full shots feet slightly further apart than is accepted as orthodox. Stand erect ,then stick out rear end, spine should incline to ball quite naturally. He also favoured having right foot at an angle of 90 deg. rather than the usual 45.

[ubizmo]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

Generally speaking, there's two spine terms. Tilt and angle.

When someone talks about their spine tilt, it's a lateral tilt - either towards or away from the target. This is similar to leaning left or right.

When someone talks about their spine angle, it's the forward/backwards tilting (bending over or standing up).

So, in the 2PS, your spine angle is upright, and your spine tilt is away from target.

In the 1PS, your spine angle is more bent over, and your spine tilt is centered or square (neither towards or away from target).

Ah, okay, my bad.

But in both swings the trailing hand is lower on the club than the leading hand, so something has to give. Either you tilt your spine away from the target, or you dip your trailing shoulder, thus opening your leading shoulder to the target. You can't keep the spine straight and the shoulders square and still have the club in line with the left arm, I don't think.

[LowPost42]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

Right - something's gotta give, and it's usually the right shoulder.

http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/79626/1/2770246

Ernie has a straight spine, but the right shoulder is dropped.

[acepepper]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

What about the Takeaway in the 1PS. Does the club head start coming inside almost immediately, or should you still try to bring it back straight for a couple of feet?

And couldn't the 1PS easily turn into a baseball swing?

I'm really struggling with coming over the top at the moment and I think I may be using elements of the 1PS and 2PS.

[mr3856a]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

Here is a pretty definitive article from Golf Digest on the subject:

http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio...ingplane1.html

Mike

[LowPost42]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

Hi Ace,

Easiest Q first: Yes, the 1PS is very much like a baseball swing. Very much.

Yes, the takeaway comes inside right away (ideally). Watching video on golfdigest.com of Ernie Els shows a hands-initiated takeaway. Ernie has his wrists set by the time his left upper arm is parallel with the ground.

The nature of the 1PS takes the club inside right away. You could try to keep it straight, but to what end? Get that lead arm on your chest, and leave it there until centrifugal force picks it off.

About the only way to come over the top with the 1PS is to increase your spine angle (ie get closer to the ground) or shift your weight out over your toes - both moves will now put your whole swing across the line, allowing you to come over the top.

My big struggle right now with the 1PS is abolishing my desire to hit with my arms (remnant from 2PS). Any time I simply put my left arm across my chest and turn my shoulders hard (and conciously de-energize my arms) I get a lovely ball flight with a nice little draw.