Do you agree with these teachings?

[MJE77]

I came across this site yesterday and read through these 12 lessons: http://www.golfpro-online.com/tuition/lking/index.html It seems like sense to me and was wondering if anybody here agrees/disagrees with what the guy says.

[LowPost42]

Re: Do you agree with these teachings?

Largely agree.

[Mr_Change]

Re: Do you agree with these teachings?

I agree with alot of what was said. I used to hit a major slice. I then start my downswing using my hips and come to far from the inside and the club would be stuck behind me. I then stated my downswing with my left arm and I all the sudden start hitting it longer and straighter.

I talk about releasing my right side this is the stored power he talks about. I feel like I can pull the club down as hard as i can from the top using me left arm, then just before impact I releash my right side and hit the ball as hard as i can. I know 260 to 270 yard drives arn't long but I am only 5 foot 6.

[LowPost42]

Re: Do you agree with these teachings?

I know 260 to 270 yard drives arn't long but I am only 5 foot 6.

So is Mike Weir - and he's averaging 280 yards in driving distance. (With a longest drive of 377).

[ubizmo]

Re: Do you agree with these teachings?

He contradicts himself in Lesson 6. He writes, "the club face was square at address and it must REMAIN SQUARE THROUGHOUT THE SWING." A few paragraphs later, he writes, "At the halfway stage of the backswing the club face will be vertical if no wrist rolling has taken place." Well, if the club face is vertical at the halfway point, it obviously is NOT square to the swing path.

He makes an interesting observation about the takeaway, stating that for the first foot or so, the shoulders should not move, just the arms. I recall reading Ernie Els saying in his book that his takeaway feels like it's "all arms." I think the effect of doing it this way is to let the arms pull the shoulders up, rather than the other way around. Of course, this is literally impossible, since the arms can't move themselves; only the shoulder, chest, and back muscles can move the arms. But I guess the main point is that the arms should move BEFORE the shoulders move. This is something I've found on my own and, when I can remember to do it, I get a better shot.

But Leslie King shares the dogmatic approach of so many golf swing experts, claiming that his way is the only one that works. He claims, for example, that the left arm must not be overly straight, because that will introduce flaws into the swing, reduce distance, etc. But if you look at time-lapse photos of Els's swing, you'll see that his left arm stays ramrod-straight throughout, and he is a superb ball striker.

[LowPost42]

Re: Do you agree with these teachings?

King teaches a classic 2 plane swing.

[SlicersHell]

Re: Do you agree with these teachings?

I believe the lower body should start before the upper body in the transition\downswing. If I just focus on my arms only, I get into trouble...other than that, I think it's sound advice.

[ubizmo]

Re: Do you agree with these teachings?

King says that the shoulders should be square to the ball (parallel to target line) at impact: "A correct downswing movement must result in a powerful swing into and along the intended line of flight, through impact. For this to be achieved the shoulders must be square at impact, or better still, fractionally "closed".

This is quite different from what our own Greg Willis recommends in the right-hand drill: "In the down swing, use the turning of the hips and shoulders (in that order) to begin the rotation that causes the club to move through the impact zone. Your rotation of the hips and shoulders should be past where you were at setup, about 45 degrees."

This is not a minor difference, it seems to me. The position of the body at impact is a critical thing. Who is right?

[gord962]

Re: Do you agree with these teachings?

My impact position is hips facing target, shoulders are about 45* to the target line.

As for starting the downswing, yes - the lower body needs to start the downswing. All the energy has been stored in the lower body, therefor the lower body must start the 'unwinding' process.

[FLFINS-N-SKINS]

Re: Do you agree with these teachings?

I read it the other day and I seemed to swing better than average today at the range. I experimented with a few things to see what kind of results I could get. I made sure my left hand was a bit stronger and that my thumbs were not on top of the club. I made an effort to concentrate on the left arm throughout the swing and finally I made very sure I had a straight spine. I was finally able to hit my 3iron hybrid and get wicked distance out of it.

[ubizmo]

Re: Do you agree with these teachings?

My impact position is hips facing target, shoulders are about 45* to the target line.

Pretty much the exact opposite of what King prescribes. Seems like a substantially different way to strike the golf ball.

[SlicersHell]

Re: Do you agree with these teachings?

My impact position is hips facing target, shoulders are about 45* to the target line.

Is that even physically possible? Your hips facing the target (not just open) and your shoulders 45 degrees closed? Ouch, sounds painful.

That's the feeling I try to go for (shoulders more closed at impact than open, and hips more opened then closed), but it's more a thought than what actually happens.

[gord962]

Re: Do you agree with these teachings?

Take a look at GregJWillis's site for pics at impact - this is what you are looking for proper position at impact http://members.cox.net/gregjwillis/LESSON3.htm

[SlicersHell]

Re: Do you agree with these teachings?

Ok, now I follow. I thought you meant shoulders 45 degrees CLOSED to the target. That would make you quite the contortionist.

As for the link with Greg's impact drill, I think those pictures are meant to provide a visual for a stretching exercise, not to indicate proper impact position. No pro looks like that at impact.

[ubizmo]

Re: Do you agree with these teachings?

What's clear is that what gord and greg are saying, and what we see in those pictures, is radically different from what Leslie King is saying in those lessons, and that's worth taking note of.

A few days ago, I saw a slow-motion replay of Allen Doyle's swing during the seniors' tournament. He has that ugly swing with the very low loopy backswing, but his average drive length is 269 yards, which is respectable. And he's rated 8th in the champions' tour for accuracy, which is more than respectable. But what I noticed in the slow-mo replay is the *extreme* hip rotation Doyle has at impact. Very pronounced, and shoulders at about 45* too, just as gord said. And this is a 57 year-old man.

Anyway, the title of this thread is "Do you agree with these teachings?" I think we've found one teaching that a number of people here don't agree with.