Ben Hogan's secret move

[billneurauter]

I just wanted to see what you thought of this article I found on Ben Hogan's secret move. I have tried this with a lot of success. Has anyone ever tried this. Does it sound like a good swing thought to have?

http://www.golfdigest.com/majors/mas...gansecret.html

Click Link

[mr3856a]

Re: Ben Hogan's secret move

My oh my. This ties a few things together that I've learned.

First of all, in answer to your semi-question, keep doing it. If it works for you and you're having great results, don't question it.

Second, I have tried it - only I didn't know it. I'm privileged to know and have worked with Peter Beames, who coached Gary Player. They also developed the walk-thru golf swing together, but that's another story. (Incedentally, Peter was named recently by Golf Digest as the 4th greatest innovator in the game of golf in the last 100 years.)

Peter is also of the opinion that Hogan is the best ball striker of all time. One afternoon last summer, I noticed he always has his right knee what I would call cocked-forward a bit in his setup. I asked him about it, and he put me in what is a bit more exaggerated position than Hogan's, but exactly the same - with the right knee pointed toward the left knee and in towards the ball.

I hit a few shots like that and then subsequently forgot about it. I do distinctly remember him telling me, though, "That is very advanced."

Maybe he knows the Secret as well.

[billneurauter]

Re: Ben Hogan's secret move

cmays,

I agree with you that there is no "magical move" that will make all of us ametuers hit the ball likes the pros. However I have read over and over the the average player had too much hip and knee movement in the backswing, then too little in the downswing. I believe that really bracing the the right knee in the backswing is a good swing thought because it gives you that lateral move to drop the right shoulder and get the club on plane.

The important thing is to have solid fundamentals going into all of this. This is not a move for the begginer, this is a move for someone who has been playing for a while. I know the first time I tried it I felt like I could make an effortless swing and still hit the ball far because of all of the torque I produced in the backswing by restricting my hips, and then the downswing by having the inside of my right leg ready to fire once I reached the top.

[ubizmo]

Re: Ben Hogan's secret move

... if the left foot is droped back a little and I may have forgot to say it, if the back foot is at 90 degrees the right knee will come in.

You mean...if the left heel is an inch behind the right heel, and the left foot is at 90 degrees to...the right foot? Toes pointing straight at the target?

[learning]

Re: Ben Hogan's secret move

This is awesome, I showed that move to my 6 year old, and it has added 15 yards to his drives. (now 80 yards). I gave him the feeling by tying some rubber strecth bands around his waist and standing on his right side and pulling it while he does his back swing. He really has to stablize himself with that right leg to keep balance on his swing.

As for me, I am the thick body type, and that position with the left foot back creates an awefull slice and lost of ball distance for me. I usually hit with the right foot back 2-3 inches from square. both feet flared. But ball position is critcal in that stance, every club the ball has to be in the right position or I am dead which leads to inconstentcy.

OK thanks

[mr3856a]

Re: Ben Hogan's secret move

Lay a club down on the ground and set your feet parallel to it. Square stance.

This is somewhat of an aside, but Harvey Penick said that laying a club along the line of your feet will tell you very little, and I have to agree. If you lay one along your thighs when you are in your stance, that's where you're aiming.

[ubizmo]

Re: Ben Hogan's secret move

I went to the practice range today, intending simply to practice the "no faffing" pre-shot routine that worked for me last Sunday, and also to work on keeping my backswing slow and my downswing relaxed. Those two things don't call for a lot of concentration. In fact, they call for almost the opposite, a kind of diffusion of attention, because I was just paying attention to feel, not position or planes or paths.

And it worked out very well. I was hitting ball quite well, and very consistently, without a lot of effort. And although I didn't make a point of monitoring distances, I'm pretty sure I was hitting farther than usual. The feeling was a kind of "whipping" with my body.

After being in this zone and hitting about 20 balls this way, I noticed that I was kicking my right knee in, to start my downswing. I didn't set out to do it; it just happened. Thinking about it caused me to duff the next few shots, but I was able to get back to just letting it happen, and the shots were good again.

By starting the downswing with the "kicking" of the right knee, I think I got my hip started early, pulling my shoulders and arms around. At least, that's how it felt. I have trouble activating my hips, and that's why videos generally show my hips dead square to the ball at impact, not turning until the ball is gone. If I can recapture what I did today, and videorecord it, I'll be curious to see if my hips are finally open at impact, even a little.

[learning]

Re: Ben Hogan's secret move

I also went to the range yesterday, and slowed down my takeaway and swing in general, and added the hogan move. Luckily there was a golf pro there who saw what i was trying to do and gave me a free lesson, My lucky day!!!!

He had my takeaway slowed down to what felt like eternaty to me, at the top I did the hogan move:

the trick for me was this:

Run the right knee in and the hip does about a quarter turn, and stop there, and wait for your upper body to come around. Awesome.


Learning

[ubizmo]

Re: Ben Hogan's secret move

That's deluxe, to get a free lesson. As for stopping then waiting for the upper body to come around...do you mean stop the knee action? I think it happens too fast for me to control, but the feeling is that the knee starts the downswing, then the hips and shoulders get pulled around, finally pulling the knee further and lifting the right foot. So maybe there is a pause there when the right leg is static. I couldn't say for sure.

I hope I can recapture this, because it was working very well at practice. It felt like...the missing link. That is, even when I would swing well and strike the ball well, it usually felt to me that something was missing, some element of power generation. And when I'd look at my swing video I'd see that my hips were facing the ball at impact and not turning until afterwards. I found it very difficult to cure this by just trying directly to turn my hip. For whatever reason, that didn't generally work very well. Maybe the fact that this knee movement started without conscious effort either will help me to keep it.

[MJE77]

Re: Ben Hogan's secret move

In the planes book for the 1ps he suggests starting the downswing with a turn of the left hip and also says you can turn it before the backswing is complete which creates even more power.

[Yukon Jack]

Re: Ben Hogan's secret move

In Mr. Hogan's book he clearly states that the right knee should be pointed in. This is repeated several times. He really stresses, as did Jack Nicklaus, that the weight should be on the inside of the legs. To me it seems the rest of the "secret move" is just a chain reaction from this setup. The flex and angle of the right knee can provide great resistance for the backswing torque.

[ubizmo]

Re: Ben Hogan's secret move

In the planes book for the 1ps he suggests starting the downswing with a turn of the left hip and also says you can turn it before the backswing is complete which creates even more power.

I'm just going to try to get consistent with it before adding anything fancy. Besides, I suspect that might not work as well for my 2PS. If I turn my hip before the backswing is complete, I run the risk of moving my shoulders out from under my swing, which would make it laid off relative to where I was. With the 1PS, as I understand it, this wouldn't be a problem, because the swing is already laid off, and the shoulders are on the same plane anyway. I'll defer to those who understand the two swings better than I do.

For now, I'll be very happy to have the knee initiating the transition from backswing to downswing.

[billneurauter]

Re: Ben Hogan's secret move

That's a good observation about whether this move will work better with a 1ps or a 2ps. I would assume since hogan had a 1ps that this move is better geared toward it. Anyone want to confirm, or disprove this?

[Mr_Change]

Re: Ben Hogan's secret move

Russel O'neil, is a two plane swing and he has always stated his power comes from driving his right knee towards the ball.

[pgmetcalf]

Re: Ben Hogan's secret move

I just want to say that there are no secret moves in golf. A teaching pro can tell you the desired action to hit the ball consistently but they can't feel the action the pupil feels so something is usually lost in translation.

All this talk of secret moves is misleading - there is more than one way to swing a club consistently.