"Knowing" your swing....

[Alias75]

This is a subject thats really interested me since taking up golf and id be interested to hear what established players and teachers think about it.

While there are of course certain fundamentals that we'd all like to get as 'right' as possible the Tour is littered with players that dont grip the club in an orthadox manner maybe have the club closed slightly on the way back or maybe open a little, maybe swing the club too far from the inside... etc etc... yet these players are playing professionally and earning good money because they know their own swings intimately and know how to get the best out of what they have.

Now turning this back to the recreational player im sure this attitude of knowing your swing and working within that framework would help most players. We all cant swing the club like Tiger or Adam Scott, our grips may not be like Mark O'Mera but that doesnt mean we cant develop a repeatable swing that maybe isnt perfect according to the coaching manual, but works for us.

Id be interested to hear the thoughts of some of the better players here, as well as teachers about the benefits of a player really 'knowing' their own swings and owning it as opposed to trying to be text book perfect and confusing things.

[Alias75]

Re: "Knowing" your swing....

Im in a slightly similar position to you in that i hit balls almost every day and so i feel i have a pretty good understanding of my swing.

The point i was trying to make is that a lot is made when learning of having the perfect grip and the perfect setup and the perfect takeaway etc.. yet the PGA Tour consists of plenty of successful players that dont posess perfect swings, and they manage them perfectly fine and are able to score well even with these "faults"

Im pretty sure most pros are very similar looking in the impact zone and thats the key to playing well and being consistent.

Sometimes we can work and work on getting a swing that looks correct but is it repeatable? As a player i realise im never going to have the perfect swing but my aim is to understand my own swing as well as i can and get to the point where it provides a consistent result that i can repeat most of the time.

Mo Norman is someone ive loved watching, his swing goes against the grain in so many ways yet he was able to hit the ball where he wanted 99.9% of the time. I think Tiger has said hes one of only 2 players that truely "owned" their swing.

[Yukon Jack]

Re: "Knowing" your swing....

From my limited point of view, the only critical part of the swing is the club face position (open, closed or straight) and the path of the club along the point of impact. We all get it right once in a while. The idea of the perfect swing components was developed to consistently put the club face the ideal impact position. I think this is a good pattern for most of us.

Many players can achieve this club position repeatedly without using these classic swing components. Besides the Tour players with unique swings, The Golf Channel recently had a special on the guy called "The Hitman" who can really launch the ball with great control without using many of the fundamentals. It was interesting to watch. He was hitting shots without shoulder turns, weight shifts, on one leg, etc. He was also hitting moving balls better than most of us hit it off tees. He claimed it was from good hand-eye coordination from hitting bb's with a broomstick as a kid. But I wonder why guys like this and other expert teachers can't control their shots well enough to play on the PGA Tour.

[Alias75]

Re: "Knowing" your swing....

But I wonder why guys like this and other expert teachers can't control their shots well enough to play on the PGA Tour.

Maybe his short game sucks!

Ive been struggling with my swing for the last few weeks and whilst playing last week felt absolutely no confidence standing over the ball on every hole, played the 1st and 2nd ok but then had one of those holes on the 3rd, thought to myself this is going to be a long day, again carried on feeling no confidence the whole way round especially on the tee. Finished my round and found out id scored a 78 which is the equal best score ive scored since i started playing again (about 8 months ago)

The point is id chipped and putted really well didnt 3 putt a green and got up and down a few times. One stretch i went 7 pars in a row, even though standing over the ball i had that feeling that a nightmare shot was just around the corner. In truth i didnt hit the ball very well but from 100 yards and in i was excellent... what a strange game this can be sometimes!

[Yukon Jack]

Re: "Knowing" your swing....

I've got the opposite problem. Most of the time I can do no wrong off the tee but I really fall apart around the green. I spend very little time working on my woods and long irons. It just seems to come naturally when I don't think about them.

I do work on my sand wedge, chip shots and putting but I'm very inconsistent. Consequently, my scoring really suffers.

[LowPost42]

Re: "Knowing" your swing....

This is a concept I struggle with - but in much the same way you do, Alias.

I think that the key is to get a solid understanding of how the golf swing works. No matter what your actual philosophy or swing style, there seems to be some constants, such as:

Starting the swing from the ground up, the big muscles provide the power, dipping of any kind is horrible.

Beyond that, if you come a little outside in, if you have a fade on every shot, if your trajectory is very, very high, then that's your golf swing.

Yes you can do things to change these things, but I'm at a point now where I'm dying for consistency - even if it's a consistent push or pull. I'm spraying my iron shots (and it's driving me nuts), but my swing is still in a big state of flux.

This will be the winter of my discontent, so that I can have a spring with a swing.

[LowPost42]

Re: "Knowing" your swing....

Just a note of thanks to this thread, and cmays for the grip digression.

While I fully understand the concept of hands in balance, I don't understand how to implement it.

I went out last night, after swinging a shovel for practice (more on this later).

I stopped thinking about my swing mechanics. I gripped the club in a way that felt comfortable, checked my alignment, and swung, using the same feeling as the shovel swing.

The other thing I've been struggling with for a month now is where to tee up my ball for the driver.

A guy I respect kept advising me to tee my ball 1/2 ball over the crown of the grounded driver, keep the driver grounded, and swing away. My current method is to tee up the ball at least 1/2 ball over the crown of the grounded driver, then hover the clubface at where I want impact to happen, then swing away.

A trip to the range, and having to hit off the mat and the little rubber tee forced me to try to hit with a grounded driver - with no success.

So, along comes this thread, and this idea pops into my head that I don't need to swing like Tiger, Ernie, Funk, Couples, Stadler, Gore, or any other PGA pro. What I need is to swing the way I swing, monitor the result and distance, and play to that.

Soooo, I tee my ball way up, and know that I'll get a 10 yard fade, ~ 260 yards out with my swing and a moderately closed stance.

I know that in order to swing my irons well, I need to play the ball up in my stance and kill my hands when I swing (so that they're not active in the swing). Now, when I build my next set of irons, I'll step them up to stiff flex, as I've got a 10 yard differential either side of my target, and I'll assume a stiff flex will help that out.

And I've gone back to trusting my short game, after quantifying some distances, and it's paid off.

I trust myself to lag up with putts (and I'm dropping some impressive distances - like a 50 footer last night), and my pitches and chips are getting much, much more accurate - I was 2" from the cup on a 40 yard pitch last night... I'm getting closer to jarring one! (I've holed out from the fairway, but it's not the same - plus, I didn't even get to see it).

So after this long winded post, it boils down to thanks - to thread starter Alias75, to cmays for the balance/hand harmony concept, to Ian for his constant pushing to ignore your swing once you've got your fundamentals down, to Greg and Gord for fantastic drills and insights, to Mr. Hutton for the board, and to the academy for the award (sorry, wrong speech).

Now, unfortunately, I have to see if I can repeat this the next time I head out (which may very well be Wednesday night for our mens' night - 2 man scramble! It'd be nice to be deep under par for once...)

[msklar92]

Re: "Knowing" your swing....

I think an excellent way to know and evaluate your swing is to have it video tapped and analyzed by a PGA professional. Often what you feel like you are doing is actually different from what you are really doing. My brother-in-law runs a golf school. Probably one of the most common problems is not getting behind the ball on the back swing. If you look at sequencing pictures of good golfers, you will find they get 2-3 inches behind the ball on the back swing with a full shoulder turn. Many swing nuances developed by pga tour players were incorporated into the swing to avoid certain shot tendencies. For example, most of Hogan's method was developed to eliminate a hook.

[Simon Woo]

Re: "Knowing" your swing....

Interesting point msklar92. I haven't read much about this getting behind the ball, come to think about it. What are the things to note and drills to do for this, if any? Thanks!

[msklar92]

Re: "Knowing" your swing....

you can try this on a day when you can face you shadow. Put a tee or ball in ground about the center and chest level of your shadow. Make a back turn with a club. At the end of your back turn, see if your shadow is behind the tee or ball or still covering it. Your shadow should no longer cover the ball.

[pnearn]

Re: "Knowing" your swing....

Probably a very obvious point but I think any player regardeless of how well they think they swing or indeed if they want to work within their own set of abilities, should have regular sessions with a GOOD pro

Last year I went for about 4 lessons with different guys and none of them really helped me. I have now found an excellent guy who I can work with and FWIW I want him to know how I swing and make it better. Each time I go back he makes small incremental changes. Its always a work in progress (see Tiger )

But bottom line if it works for you and youre happy with what yours shooting then great. Now if I only I could Putt

[1lostball]

Re: "Knowing" your swing....

Just a comment on CMAYS mention of swing trainers.I use a golf club I bought on a secondhand goods market for £2. Its an akamarusport.Sand wedge pitch wedge the ultimate wedge it saysIt has a round tipe head of solid stainless steel
not over heavy but when you have swung it a few times you can feel it in your shoulder use it all the time keep it with my clubs.

ping bag
ping 3i to s.w
60D 64D
2wood
17 D utiliy
No 2 driving i
Chas
burnley england

[LowPost42]

Re: "Knowing" your swing....

Just got in from another round.

Knowing and trusting your swing can provide some unbelievable golf.

My distances are shot (I'm long on everything) but my accuracy is laser like.

[Alias75]

Re: "Knowing" your swing....

Good to hear lowpost, im always reminded of Mo Norman someone if you looked at his swing and compared it to the text book those 2 swings would bear little resemblence yet he more than anyone in the history of golf (probabaly) owned his swing and was able to make it work remarkably well.

There are plenty of ways to swing the golf club effectively you only have to look at the PGA Tour to see that, i think beginners or enthusiastic amateurs become obsessed with getting a swing that "looks right" instead they should discover what they're doing right and slowly looking to make subtle adjustments within that framework.

[GreeBoman]

Re: "Knowing" your swing....

i think beginners or enthusiastic amateurs become obsessed with getting a swing that "looks right"

The reason I do this and in fact encourage it is that while an unorthodox swing works its great but when it fails (and it will, they all do!) it can be very hard for a coach to fix it if they have not been your coach for a long time.

Im reminded of what someone said about Eamon D'Arcy the successful Irish Pro.
Basically...
"nice swing, but I wouldnt go too far out of town, it might be difficult to get parts"