Left arm cutting across right shoulder

[Simon Woo]

For a one-plane swing, is this the correct position for the left arm at the top of the backswing? Would going above the right shoulder (ie. across the neck) be indicative of a two-plane swing instead?

[TeachingPro]

Re: Left arm cutting across right shoulder

Simon, in simple terms, yes ... with a 1-plane swing the shaft angle doesn't change from the address angle. The arms and club rotate on the same swing plane as they are at address. You end up in a very flat plane (of course depending on the address position and the club you are using) but normally it is in-line or below the right shoulder rather than above it.

With a 2 plane swing, the club goes around and then up over the shoulders ... changing plane. Some people I coach have about 10 planes in 1 swing, but that's another thing all together!!

[Simon Woo]

Re: Left arm cutting across right shoulder

Thanks Graham. When I started golf about 4 months ago, I naturally adopted the 2P swing, raising my hands high independently of my shoulders and body. Perhaps I'm not doing it properly, but that part of my swing where the shaft goes above the address plane does not do anything for me at all, in fact I am pretty sure that's the part that's causing me loss of power. I'm now wondering what that part is for, as it seems like extra movements and brings my out of the slot, meaning at the downswing I have to reverse that extra movement to bring me back into the slot.

Maybe I'm missing something. If done correctly, would that extra movement actually create more power? But it definitely seems that it would compromise consistency and accuracy, as compared to the 1P swing. So unless I can get all this sorted out, I guess I am going to stick to the "arms no higher than shoulder" rule because it's adding consistency and accuracy and power to my swing now.

Appreciate your thoughts on this

Thanks!

[TeachingPro]

Re: Left arm cutting across right shoulder

I wouldn't say you are missing something but I would say that your extra movements would be causing a lot of inconsistency. It takes great skill to compensate for the extra movements, whatever they might be.

I don't do a lot of 1-plane teaching but it certainly has its advantages. You still need the same amount of consistency and skill to strike the golf ball accurately BUT: the 1 plane swing is far easier to be consistent with.

Experiment with the 1-plane swing for a few months and see how it works out. It is ceryainly far easier to learn and adapt.

[Simon Woo]

Re: Left arm cutting across right shoulder

Hi Graham,

I'm curious then, why would people use 2P and complicate the swing, unless there are some obvious benefits to it?

[pnearn]

Re: Left arm cutting across right shoulder

I think the 2PS done right does have advantages but many people percieve it as just lifting the arms

In my book, the 2PS starts with a one piece takeaway where your hips and shoulders and turning. This needs to happen until the club is parallel but the number one aim here shoud be to keep the clubhead outside your hands so it doesnt get behind you and too much to the inside. If done right there should be a good extension and already quite a big turn into the right side. Its from here the arms and body seperate and the shoulders turn up on a much more vertical plane until the hands are high and the club probably level with your shoulders if dropped (and maybe slightly laid off).

I struggled for years as a 2PS in this second part of the backswing where I would continue to swing around myself rather than seperate and swing more vertically. This meant I had a 1PS swing witha 2PS set-up which I think a lot of amateurs have

Right now im really trying hard to decide which swing I favour best before I really work hard at it. At the moment its the 2PS which I am more consistent with on the course and which gives me the best distance. However its also the swing which is easiest to get wrong !

[Simon Woo]

Re: Left arm cutting across right shoulder

I am not sure if I recall correclty, but apparently the 1PS is supposed to be able to give more distance?

I also naturally raised my arms, so I guess in that sense, I am more inclined towards a 2PS. But I am currently going through a series of 5 lessons on the golf swing, and it's based on the 1PS. Well no issues with that, after 2 lessons I am able to hit as far and as consistently as I have been practising by myself the 2PS for the past 2-3 months. So I will give that a go definitely.

So another major difference is that in the 2PS, the hands are in front of the body, while in the 1PS the arms kinda wrap round the body, correct?

[LowPost42]

Re: Left arm cutting across right shoulder

The 1PS will give more distance if you're strong and flexible. However, as we age, it may become beneficial to switch to the 2PS, as it's not as reliant on strength and flexibility for distance. I'm not saying it doesn't rely on it, just not as much as the 1PS does.

[pnearn]

Re: Left arm cutting across right shoulder

So another major difference is that in the 2PS, the hands are in front of the body, while in the 1PS the arms kinda wrap round the body, correct?

Yes it is. With a 1PS you just turn your shoulders, keeping your left arm connected to your chest. You turn you back on the ball and your arms will be fairly low. Try and ensure your right elbow is pointing at the ground too

From there I simply pull my left arm down my chest with my 1PS swing, others I guess would just turn the shoulders back along the same plane

[TeachingPro]

Re: Left arm cutting across right shoulder

No matter what "plane" methodology you use to swing the golf club - golf will always be difficult. You're hittin a golf ball with a club that moves so fast passed the golf ball you cannot see it!

I have taught both methodologies and they both have their complications.

[Simon Woo]

Re: Left arm cutting across right shoulder

Be it a 1PS or 2PS, how accurate is the description of the waiter position at the top of the back swing? Does the palm of the right hand face vertically upwards towards the sky? I notice that my palms are actually facing about 45% towards the sky. Is that an indication that I am not cupping my right hands enough?

[pinyo8]

Re: Left arm cutting across right shoulder

45 degrees is about right. In my opinion, Definitely dont feel like you are overexagerating the movement. It should still feel comfortable. Just trying to maintain that cupped "feeling" through the downswing should be enough.

[Simon Woo]

Re: Left arm cutting across right shoulder

Thanks Matt. I guess it's a bit difficult to see from videos whether the cupped wrist is being employed, from the speed of the swing. The cupped wrist is something I try to do but can never be sure if I'm having any degree of success...

[pnearn]

Re: Left arm cutting across right shoulder

Simon

I would suggest trying to focus as much on your right elbow at the top than your palm position. Your left arm should be straight and your right elbow pointing down, with as small a gap as possible between the elbows ( the maintenance of the triangle)

[Simon Woo]

Re: Left arm cutting across right shoulder

Thanks pnearn. Had my lesson last night. My coach says I'm fine with the backswing, but now I'm a bit stuck with the downswing. From what I've observed, I'm supposed to drop my hands so that the club comes back to the plane, and let it rip. The problem is when I try to do that down and swing movement, I am just not able to generate enough speed and after hitting like 200 balls last night, my right fingers are starting to develop blisters.