Position at the top

[Simon Woo]

Hi all,

I'm really confused what's the real correct position at the top. I know my takeaway is fine (shaft horizontal, pointing backwards along target line, clubhead pointing towards the sky), but from there on right to the top, it seems like there are 1001 variations. I am stuck in my golf swing improvement because I never know which is the real correct position to end up with and how to practice further from there to the downswing and impact. This has been a big stumbling block for my improvement.

Is it possible to find the correct position at the top just by getting the right thumb in the right position? I don't know what easier way to envision if I am at the right position (that includes any rotation of the forearms and the extent and direction of the wrists cock/hinge). I've been practising a lot but not getting any real improvement, in fact my iron shots have become much less consistent because I'm always trying to find the "more correct" position at the top. I will go get some further lessons to get this pinned down, but do appreciate any insights meanwhile.

Thanks!

[TeachingPro]

Re: Position at the top

From the takeaway position you describe, if it is correct, keep your hands and wrists firm and turn the shouldersand rotate behind the golf ball. That is your position at the top.

There is no "standard" or "best" position at the top, everyone has a different position because everyone is bult differently and has a slightky different stance & address position.

[msklar92]

Re: Position at the top

1) get in address position
2) lift the club up straight in front of you to about shoulder height
3) turn shoulders 90 degrees - that should approximate the position at the top.
4) I think G. Willis does this in the right hand drill.

at the top - shoulders should be turned 90 degress with chest facing away from the target, shoulders behind the ball and weight transferred to the inside of the right foot.

[TeachingPro]

Re: Position at the top

1) get in address position
2) lift the club up straight in front of you to about shoulder height
3) turn shoulders 90 degrees - that should approximate the position at the top.
4) I think G. Willis does this in the right hand drill.

at the top - shoulders should be turned 90 degress with chest facing away from the target, shoulders behind the ball and weight transferred to the inside of the right foot.

This is one simple way of doing it, the problem with this drill is you don't have the correct spine angle (the drill requires you to be standing upright), so it isn't actually 'your position at the top'. This drill should actually be used to drill a full shoulder turn, not to check the position at the top.

[msklar92]

Re: Position at the top

interesting, thanks for the correction.

[Simon Woo]

Re: Position at the top

From takeaway if I simply rotate my shoulders, it seems as if the club is only 3/4 way back. So my question here, from the takeaway onwards - while I am rotating my shoulders, I will need to hinge my wrists and lift my arms, right?

[TeachingPro]

Re: Position at the top

From takeaway if I simply rotate my shoulders, it seems as if the club is only 3/4 way back. So my question here, from the takeaway onwards - while I am rotating my shoulders, I will need to hinge my wrists and lift my arms, right?

Yes and no ...

From the position in the takeaway wherethe club is parallel to the ground and the toe ofthe club is pointing skywards, turn your shoulders 90* and that's it ...

The length ofthe backswing is determined by the 90* rotation of the shoulders, not the length the club travels. Don't worry if the club is only 3/4's back - as long asyour shoulders have rotated 90*.

[acepepper]

Re: Position at the top

Simon, I'm not a pro or golf instructor, just an ordinary golfer like you, who's been through all the trials and tribulations you're going through now. All I can say is that you're thinking far too much about your swing. Just get a nice relaxed set up, a nice smooth backswing and forget about the position at the top. The more you try and manipulate that, the further from it you'll get. Just try going to the range, putting all "swing thoughts" out of your head and just hitting the ball.

[ChadCash]

Re: Position at the top

Simon,
I used to be worried about my top of swing position but now I take a shorter backswing and it doesn't seem to matter so much. I still get the same distance if not more. Work on a shorter backswing and a downswing that is iniatited with the lower body.

[pnearn]

Re: Position at the top

Simon, I'm not a pro or golf instructor, just an ordinary golfer like you, who's been through all the trials and tribulations you're going through now. All I can say is that you're thinking far too much about your swing. Just get a nice relaxed set up, a nice smooth backswing and forget about the position at the top. The more you try and manipulate that, the further from it you'll get. Just try going to the range, putting all "swing thoughts" out of your head and just hitting the ball.

I couldnt agree more. Simon, honestly, you are over analysing far too much. You cannot and should not be overly concerned about where you are at the top. In fact where you at the top is a direct result of where you are halfway back. A good setup, a nice relaxed grip and a good turn of the shoulders is what swings the club. Once you have the club set on plane when the hands are at 9' o clock the wrists should already be fully hinged. The early wrist set here is crucual (Leadbetter is selling his swingsetter thing for 80UKP based on this rather simple premise). From this position just turn the shoulders and keep the lower body stable. If you dont get the club all the way too parallel thats fine, in fact its probably right as if you are you are collapsing and overswinging. Note Tiger et al all have much shorter, more compact backswings now as they have much more control that way

I strongly suspect you have one or 2 minor faults which are maybe holding you back some so you are looking at everything else to find an answer

Youve said before you hit the ball straight but without much distance which says to me that your top of swing position is fine but there are maybe one or two things going on in the downswing where you are leaking power. Would this be correct?

[Simon Woo]

Re: Position at the top

Hi pnearn,

Don't worry I have not forgotten your earlier advice In a way, I know you can really identify with the issues I'm going through and I think there's a lot I can learn from your personal experience Acepepper seems to have gone down this road I'm traveling too, so I really appreciate you guys chipping in to lead me down this road

You hit the nail on the head again. I also believe there are some minor faults in my swing which is getting in the way, and I am just round the corner but not quite there yet. Indeed I have done tonnes of research and I've tried all sorts of minor adjustments to my swing. The latest thing I did was re-look at my grip, and I realised I was gripping more with the palm than the fingers. Surprisingly, my new grip helps my position at the top, and my left wrist now is not as cupped as before.

I've already contacted a pro at one of the ranges which I usually practice at, so I will be spending some time with her working on my swing and letting her find out those faults in my swing

[pnearn]

Re: Position at the top

Hi pnearn,

Don't worry I have not forgotten your earlier advice In a way, I know you can really identify with the issues I'm going through and I think there's a lot I can learn from your personal experience Acepepper seems to have gone down this road I'm traveling too, so I really appreciate you guys chipping in to lead me down this road

You hit the nail on the head again. I also believe there are some minor faults in my swing which is getting in the way, and I am just round the corner but not quite there yet. Indeed I have done tonnes of research and I've tried all sorts of minor adjustments to my swing. The latest thing I did was re-look at my grip, and I realised I was gripping more with the palm than the fingers. Surprisingly, my new grip helps my position at the top, and my left wrist now is not as cupped as before.

I've already contacted a pro at one of the ranges which I usually practice at, so I will be spending some time with her working on my swing and letting her find out those faults in my swing

Great stuff Simon... the swing is always a work in progress but best to take little steps and remember to enjoy the game. Here's to you getting where you want to be in the new year

[canadian_man_44]

Re: Position at the top

I can't help but weigh in on this one. You guys are right on target about the "over analyzing" thing. The first few years I played golf I just let my natural swing take it away and my drives were going straight as an arrow 290 - 300 yards in 9 out of 10 shots. When I started playing with my golfaholic brother(he plays 130 to 160 rounds in a winter shortened Canadian season) I started analyzing my swing and trying to get a few extra yards so I could outdrive him all the time instead of just 90 percent of the time like I had been. When I started analyzing my swing, I started slicing most of the time. My best advice is to listen to what these guys are saying. Don't overanalyze!!!!

[Simon Woo]

Re: Position at the top

Thanks canadian man, you are so right on that one. When I just started golf, I as getting pretty good straight shots with my 7 iron. Of course, comparing with the 'average', I knew that I needed to get another 20 yds or so out of it. So that started me down the road of this analyzing. At the back of my mind, I just knew/felt that something was wrong with my swing, and I just needed to correct it. Well it's been 13 months since I started playing golf, and I am finally learning to take it easy sometimes and just go and hit some shots, instead of trying to find something to correct/perfect everytime I pick up a club