Where to aim to strike the ball...

[ADCL76]

Re: Where to aim to strike the ball...

I think the slant of the swing arc determines this for each club. Short irons are more directly behind the ball all the way to 4 o'clock for the driver.

[BrianW]

Re: Where to aim to strike the ball...

The direction your club approaches the ball defines how spin direction will be applied to the ball. The length of the club defines the swing plane which ideally will be at 90 degrees to your spine angle.

[Ringer]

Re: Where to aim to strike the ball...

In order to hit the inside part of the golf ball, the clubface MUST be OPEN. That actually will cause the ball to start to the right.

You can still feel like the club is swinging inside out which makes you feel like you are going to hit the inside part of the ball, but the point of contact between the face and ball has more to do with face orientation.

[BrianW]

Re: Where to aim to strike the ball...

In order to hit the inside part of the golf ball, the clubface MUST be OPEN. That actually will cause the ball to start to the right.

You can still feel like the club is swinging inside out which makes you feel like you are going to hit the inside part of the ball, but the point of contact between the face and ball has more to do with face orientation.

Hi Ringer.

If I line up right of target and keep the clubface square to my stance then swing in to out wont the ball start out right of target and pull back left?

If I aim further right with a slightly closed clubface and hit in to out wont the ball start out right of target and pull back left?

I find that opening the clubface will create a higher shot trajectory with less power, which is OK if that's what you want.

[LowPost42]

Re: Where to aim to strike the ball...

Hi Ringer.

If I line up right of target and keep the clubface square to my stance then swing in to out wont the ball start out right and pull back left?

If I aim further right with a slightly closed clubface and hit in to out wont the ball start out right of target and pull back left?

I find that opening the clubface will create a higher shot trajectory with less power, which is OK if that's what you want.

Science has shown us (via multiple doppler-radar suite monitors) that face angle accounts for a little more than 85% of initial direction, while the difference between FA and path will account for curvature.

So line up right and club square while swinging in to out will have a ball starting out slightly right of your target and coming back left (how much left is dependent on the difference between path and FA).

Assuming you aim further left but keep the clubface on the original target (but now further closed to your new setup), the ball will come out much lower, a touch more right than the first ball, but definitely curve back to the left more (ie should end up more left of the first ball).

Closing or delofting the clubface results in a shot that, all things being equal, goes lower and longer to the pull side, while an open face goes higher and shorter to the push side; both of these making sense because you've changed the face angle through impact as well as changing the dynamic loft i.e. making the club play stronger or weaker by reducing or increasing effective loft.

[BrianW]

Re: Where to aim to strike the ball...

Science has shown us (via multiple doppler-radar suite monitors) that face angle accounts for a little more than 85% of initial direction, while the difference between FA and path will account for curvature.

So line up right and club square while swinging in to out will have a ball starting out slightly right of your target and coming back left (how much left is dependent on the difference between path and FA).

Assuming you aim further left but keep the clubface on the original target (but now further closed to your new setup), the ball will come out much lower, a touch more right than the first ball, but definitely curve back to the left more (ie should end up more left of the first ball).

Closing or delofting the clubface results in a shot that, all things being equal, goes lower and longer to the pull side, while an open face goes higher and shorter to the push side; both of these making sense because you've changed the face angle through impact as well as changing the dynamic loft i.e. making the club play stronger or weaker by reducing or increasing effective loft.

So, I think we agree that there is more than one way to start a ball right and pull it back left (or visa versa) and that opening and closing the face creates higher or lower ball flight. The amount of ball curvature is also dependant on the force the ball is struck with.

[keiko]

Re: Where to aim to strike the ball...

Frankly, there is no real significance to where you strike the ball as long as your swing path is from in to out and you keep the right elbow down and past your right hip at impact.

On drives, I have been focusing on striking the ball about 4 o'clock, about 45* inside the rear of the ball. One would think this would send the ball way right, however, when accomplished, this produces a really nice, straight, long drive.

Is this common? And, if so....should I do the same on irons and wedges?? I have a lot of trouble pulling irons. I aim at the back of the ball when using them.

[LowPost42]

Re: Where to aim to strike the ball...

So, I think we agree that there is more than one way to start a ball right and pull it back left (or visa versa) and that opening and closing the face creates higher or lower ball flight. The amount of ball curvature is also dependant on the force the ball is struck with.

I completely agree one can change how much the ball will curve and how far "offline" it will start - but that how it starts is due to FA (which, looking back, is why I used to really struggle with a severe push-slice, never closing or even squaring the face) and how much it curves is due to the deviation from path to FA.

I am also convinced that GJS was onto an "undocumented phenomenon" in regards to the ballistic component of ball flight - (how hard the ball is hit) and why I'd be able to hit some shots that would rocket dead straight for 100 yards, then "stop on a dime" and go straight right. Now, "straight" was actually a push, but there was no curvature to the flight. The ballistic component was overpowering the aerodynamic - but once it kicked in, boy, look out!

As for the OP - I've spent the last couple years experimenting with hitting the ball at ~4:30 (if 6 oclock is pointing to my feet, RH golfer) versus hitting at 3:00 - and like all have noted, I get a weak cut @ 3 versus a strong, solid, straight ballflight targeting 4:30 (ie come from the inside and hit the inside).

It's become my 'reset button' when my ballstriking starts getting squirrelly - make sure I'm setup properly, then hit the ball at 4:30.

[Ringer]

Re: Where to aim to strike the ball...

Hi Ringer.

If I line up right of target and keep the clubface square to my stance then swing in to out wont the ball start out right of target and pull back left?

If I aim further right with a slightly closed clubface and hit in to out wont the ball start out right of target and pull back left?

I find that opening the clubface will create a higher shot trajectory with less power, which is OK if that's what you want.

It depends on just how much you mean by "slightly closed clubface".

Also, any amount of closed clubface will ALWAYS ensure that the ball will be struck on the outside half of the ball relative to YOU. Perhaps on the inside half of the ball relative to the target, but most people are using themselves as the reference when it comes to swinging from the inside or outside.

[BrianW]

Re: Where to aim to strike the ball...

It depends on just how much you mean by "slightly closed clubface".

Also, any amount of closed clubface will ALWAYS ensure that the ball will be struck on the outside half of the ball relative to YOU. Perhaps on the inside half of the ball relative to the target, but most people are using themselves as the reference when it comes to swinging from the inside or outside.

Relative to the target, thas why you would be facing further right.

[keiko]

Re: Where to aim to strike the ball...

as you can tell, I am not a big proponent of minute details; what I do think is most important is fundamentals. Learn repeatable fundamentals and your swing will become your swing. Trying to decide on which quadrant to strike the ball will make you too "hit" or "ball" centered besides making you crazy.
I respect those who do focus on such things as quadrants, just not my thing.

I think the slant of the swing arc determines this for each club. Short irons are more directly behind the ball all the way to 4 o'clock for the driver.

[Ringer]

Re: Where to aim to strike the ball...

Relative to the target, thas why you would be facing further right.

Not at all trying to be a contrarian here Brian. I'm just trying to be as plainly accurate as possible.

If you are going to hit the inside half of the golf ball relative to the target line (for those of you who don't know the target line is a line drawn directly from the center of the ball to the target) then the clubface MUST be open relative to the target line.

If you are going to hit the inside half of the golf ball relative to YOU the player, the clubface MUST be open relative to YOU the player at impact.

The only way that we could in any way say that the clubface would be in a closed position and hit the inside half of the ball is if we change the perspective we are talking about in mid sentence.

You can strike the inside half of the golf ball relative to the target line, with a closed clubface relative to the player.

IMO that just makes the whole thing very murky. It's easier IMO to just say the clubface has to be open to hit the inside of the ball.


As an addendum, one dimple on the ball is somewhere around 6-8 degree's of the ball's circumference. Ergo hitting the inside half of the ball by a dimple results in a miss that is approximately 10-15 yards offline for every 100 yards the ball travels. That's assuming a straight line with no fade or draw spin.

[bill reed]

Re: Where to aim to strike the ball...

as you can tell, I am not a big proponent of minute details; what I do think is most important is fundamentals. Learn repeatable fundamentals and your swing will become your swing. Trying to decide on which quadrant to strike the ball will make you too "hit" or "ball" centered besides making you crazy.
I respect those who do focus on such things as quadrants, just not my thing.

hi Keiko
i agree with your last post about the right elbow and having an in to out swing. we dont all swing in to square to in. my swing in in to out.
i set up with a very open stance and fade the ball and i swing in to out with a sort of push shot. i also dont look so much at the ball but a few inches in front of the ball. i find looking at the back of the ball puts you in a "hit" frame of mind and your thinging of hitting the ball. looking a few inches ahead put you in a "Swing" frame of mind and you swing through the ball.
i also vary the amount of fade by the face of the club and how open my stance is.
wanting more fade you open the face and open the stance a bit more.
the aim point in not the target for your stance but where you want the ball to start out. the amount of fade is where you set up your club face. like Brian said if i want more fade i get also a higer shot and softer landing.
Cheers
Bill

[ricktimm]

Re: Where to aim to strike the ball...

What you are doing with your drives should be repeated with all of your clubs. You are basically creating a Path to achieve the 4 o'clock impact position...another way to do this is to swing out to the right of your target. An inside out swingpath is the most efficient way to strike a golf ball consistently.
Good Golfing,
Rick

[Ringer]

Re: Where to aim to strike the ball...

What you are doing with your drives should be repeated with all of your clubs. You are basically creating a Path to achieve the 4 o'clock impact position...another way to do this is to swing out to the right of your target. An inside out swingpath is the most efficient way to strike a golf ball consistently.
Good Golfing,
Rick

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