Can't maintain shaft angle

[GoNavy]

Hello to all, very good forum here, this is my first post.

My question is as the thread states, my inability to maintain the angle between the golf club (shaft) and my arms at impact. Centerfuge force causes this angle to straighten out, thus usually means a fat shot. I don't know if my wrist are simply not strong enough, or some other swing flaw.

To better explain what I am talking about, in the lessons on posture, the figure shows standing straight up arms extended with the club parallal to the ground. I can do this but if I relax my hands and arms, the clubs drops almost to the ground, where my arms and the club are almost in straight line, I barely have to bend over. I have checked my grip, it is correct, but my wrist are just very flexible.

My solution for the last 30 yrs I have been playing, was to have a very high hands setup at address, (almost a natural golf setup, with normal grip and stance) I have managed to play to between a 5 - 8 handicap doing this. But I am convinced I will not get better, until I can get to a better address position and a better swing (meaning correct hand position). The problem with my high hands deal is it is very sensitive to timing and grip (strong/weak) the slightest changes means a push slice instead of a draw, or coming over the top and a big pull hook. Those shots come out of nowhere, usually at the worst times, and I still hit fat occassionally, even with high hands.

Thanks for any help, has anyone else had this problem.

[GregJWillis]

Re: Can't maintain shaft angle

Flex more in the knees. Feel like a linebacker with your butt out and weight ceneterd. This will allow you to get the angle set right.

[GoNavy]

Re: Can't maintain shaft angle

Thanks, but you are missing the point, I know how to get into the correct posture, when I do, I hit fat because I lose the angle, that is my point, I want to get into the correct posture. Until I can maintain the angle obtained at address, I can not, I must stand taller, and shift further to make up for the lengthening of the shaft, due to losing the angle.

Let me try another way to explain. Lets say when I get into the correct address posture from behind looking down the line, the line from my shoulders to my hands is A,B and my hands to the club head is B,C at address there is a 30 degree or more differences in these angles. Now when I swing, due to the forces (centerfuge, I know spelling sucks) there is no angle at impact A - C is a straight line.

My entire golfing career I have countered this by setting up at address with high hands A,B and B,C offset of only 10 degrees or less. Basically my arms and club shaft are almost at the same angle, because that is how it will be at impact.

So what I am asking is what swing fault causes this loss of angle or are my wrist simple different from every one else, maybe I should switch to natural golf since I already setup and swing like that. Thanks

[GregJWillis]

Re: Can't maintain shaft angle

The angle at address and impact are going to be different. Impact is almost straight. So that is not the reason for the fat shots.

Look for something else. Like maybe the upper torso raising up/down, or the back leg accordion (straightening at the top, then flexing at impact).

http://mysite.verizon.net/gregjwillis/GENERAL%20TIPS.htm

[msklar92]

Re: Can't maintain shaft angle

are your talking about the right wrist angle at impact??
left wrist and arm and club shaft are in a line at impact and right wrist is bent to allow hinge. are your saying you cannot maintain the right wrist angle at impact??

[GregJWillis]

Re: Can't maintain shaft angle

No, from behind, then line from the arms, the shaft and through to the club face is usually a straight line.

[GoNavy]

Re: Can't maintain shaft angle

are your talking about the right wrist angle at impact??
left wrist and arm and club shaft are in a line at impact and right wrist is bent to allow hinge. are your saying you cannot maintain the right wrist angle at impact??

You are referencing the wrong angle view, not face on, but from behind down the line, looking at my right pocket. From this view, arms hang is more verticle (A.B) then hands to ball (B,C) which is more flat , not vertical. When I swing that sraightens out forming one angle A,C some where between my vertical arms and shaft. whcih makes the arm/club radias longer, hence low point of swing is further back equals fat shot. This is the relationship I am losing, the one between arms and shaft as seen from behind me looking at the target.

OK I found a picture

http://www.golf-tuition-online.com/v...ead.php?t=3804

in picture number 3 of address from this view, is what I am talking about, notice the shaft angle, B,C points to his mid section and the arms are more vertical A,B. When I setup this way and swing, at impact, I completely lose that relationship and form a straight line from A - C which makes the radiaus bigger and I hit fat and toe heavy, even though I am coming from the inside.

[GregJWillis]

Re: Can't maintain shaft angle

That is the reference I was talking about. At impact you will see the line generally straight. Like I said, your fatness is comming from somewhere else.

[Started2k3]

Re: Can't maintain shaft angle

Face on view: There will be a bend from A - C, due to the hands being ahead of the clubhead at impact (think only about the left arm & hand). This is part of where the 30 degree bend goes from the setup position. The other part should be taken care of by shoulder&hip rotation (left shoulder further away from the ball at impact than at address).

If your setup is perfect and you hit fat shots, then either you do not have enough clubhead lag or rotation at impact. Is this correct?

[Simon Woo]

Re: Can't maintain shaft angle

Let me see if I got this correct. So at address the angle at B (angle between upper arm and forearm) is something like 150 degrees, and when you get back down to impact it becomes a straight line (0 degrees)? If I got this correct, then I am wondering if you are 1) raising up during your downswing or 2) backing away from the ball. I believe in your case, a video of your swing will reveal much and be very helpful.

[GoNavy]

Re: Can't maintain shaft angle

The angle at address and impact are going to be different. Impact is almost straight. So that is not the reason for the fat shots.

Look for something else. Like maybe the upper torso raising up/down, or the back leg accordion (straightening at the top, then flexing at impact).

http://mysite.verizon.net/gregjwillis/GENERAL%20TIPS.htm

Hmmm..I never knew that it should straighten out at impact, I always assumed that to be incorrect. I don't straighten my right leg going back, but I do drive pretty hard with my right knee to the ball, could this be causing the problem, maybe dipping a little when my tempo is off.

Thank you by the way, and don't get me wrong, I'm not talking that this happens all the time, I do have a 5 handicap, so my swing is pretty sound, these errant shots only happen 4 or 5 times a round, just often enough to piss me off, and I have never been able to diagnose it. When I say high hands, I mean ala Nancy Lopez, or Raymond Floyd, both of which have non conforming looking swings. I'm the same way, what I do works, but I don't think I'm going to get to scratch until I start getting a little more conforming, because I'm not nearly as talented as them. Actually come to think of it, my address looks almost exactly like Floyds, except I don't lay off the club on the backswing.

[nickwbryant]

Re: Can't maintain shaft angle

Gonavy - i understand what you are saying. With my driver especially i have this problem (which is essentially the club returning to impact on a higher plane than it was at address). You are most likely coming down too steep on the ball and possibly over the top slightly too. Also i have to wonder if the actual lie of the clubs is correct for your build. Dont suppose you can post your swing at all? that would make things easier to diagnose

nick

[GregJWillis]

Re: Can't maintain shaft angle

One thing to think about, is that as a 5 and your issue here is not a major one, your setup changing to "conform" to another style is not the way to go. What you have is usually what is comfortable to you (except for those that are never comfortable), and it is always a better approach to start with minor changes first to fix minor issues.

Look at the head movement first. And because this fat shot is not all the time, start to note what the shot was...Late in the round, uneven lie, pressure shot,...etc. There might be some other reasons/forces for it. Then work from there.