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**pinyo8** · 02-21-2006, 03:00 AM

Re: My Swing Feb 2006 - HELP!! please

Hi Richie,

Nice swing there and I dont know if you should really be too worried about being flat. from the video, your backswing and downswing seems to be following the same path to me.

I had a similar issue with my swing a while ago and what I noticed was that the more I tried to make my swing upright, it ended up flatter since I was trying to force it there with my arms.

So here is what I did to correct it.

1) On the setup, feel like as if you are keeping your arms and body more connected.

2) On the backswing, really focus on just turning your upper body with your arms connected. Feel like as if your left arm is going to brush up against your chest.

Doing those two things above have really helped me get more consistent as well. It really does force you to make more of a one piece turn.

Let me know how that goes.

Matt

**Martin Levac** · 02-21-2006, 04:39 AM

Re: My Swing Feb 2006 - HELP!! please

Richie, before trying to fix a problem that isn't there, ask yourself what is the purpose of the backswing?

The backswing is completely unimportant except for one thing: Its purpose is to achieve a precise position at the top that will allow you to begin the downswing properly.

The backswing is simply the motion you do to bring the club into position at the top. It's a precision movement. That's it.

That precise position at the top is what we call the slot. Find it and begin the downswing properly. It doesn't need to be on plane, it doesn't need to match the downswing, all it needs to do is allow you to begin the downswing properly.

The downswing is what is truly important. That's where you generate power and accuracy. Thing is, you can't generate power and accuracy if you don't achieve this precise position at the top of the backswing because it is that precise position at the top that allows you to generate power and accuracy on the downswing.

Two drills.

Practice the backswing only. Try to achieve this precise position at the top. Repeat.

Practice the downswing only. Start from a precise position at the top. Repeat.

Match the two, swing.

Have you ever wondered why golfers pause at the top? The reason is simple, they want to make sure that position is correct so they can begin the downswing with all they've got.

ML

**Ian Hancock** · 02-21-2006, 07:32 AM

Re: My Swing Feb 2006 - HELP!! please

Hi Richie,

I like Martin's answer, I think your swing looks fine, however I know what you mean by looking flat, my swing is similar.

It's the wrists I think the arms are fine, half way back is where the butt of the club point outside the line simple don't over rotate your wrists, more up and down not side to side, you just need to feel like the shaft is a little more upright and it should feel very light at this point.

As you can see there is a little wrist movement first from the top to get you on the correct plane for the downswing, again same as me.

Other than the wrist thing the swing is perfect, powerfull with a great extention through the ball.

Hope this helps

Ian.

**JohnP** · 02-21-2006, 08:18 AM

Re: My Swing Feb 2006 - HELP!! please

Richie - with a swing like that you've got nothing to worry about, there are tour pro's out there that would be envious!

The slight pause at the top is a great idea though, it worked wonders for me.

**pinyo8** · 02-21-2006, 08:18 AM

Re: My Swing Feb 2006 - HELP!! please

Although I did give you things that you could work on, I have to agree with the other people here as well which is to "dont fix what is not broken".

Lots of people do tell me the same thing (thanks Ian!) but I just cant help not tinkering with my swing. I still feel like there is something there that I could work on to make it a much more consistent and reliable swing. The reason why I say this is because I feel like I am holding back or am cautious when I swing. Recently though, I think I have figured out what I need to do and hopefully it will be the last time I make any changes (major changes anyway). From there, I just want to practice and really engrain it......then work more on short game .......

**nickwbryant** · 02-21-2006, 10:57 AM

Re: My Swing Feb 2006 - HELP!! please

Richie - that's a great swing. Lovely, as good as many of the tour pros. You are very slightly flat (IMO) but not enough to worry about. Your downswing is perfect! If you look at pics of the pros they seem to have the club above the right shoulder with, in the main, the right forearm parallel to the spine angle. i think you have great extension in the backswing (not much wrist cock) and your arms get a bit flat at the halfway stage. Your swing is very similar to mine in that sense (except when i extend i tend to overswing and cross the line then i come over the top slightly just like you mentioned) i am currently working on getting a bit steeper going back with more wrist cock but might stick that in another thread! any tips on how you stop crossing the line?

One thing that i cant see too well is if you have a bowed wrist and therefore slightly closed clubface at the top. This may be the cause of your pulls. Not saying you have but the video is very small and its something to check as it does look a bit shut to me.

Anyway - brilliant swing - am very jealous. I would be very careful listening to advice here (as the others mentioned) especially if you have pro's that know your game.

nick

**RichieWinch** · 02-21-2006, 11:24 AM

Re: My Swing Feb 2006 - HELP!! please

It's just i feel my bad shots are caused by me being flat then over compensating to get it back on plane leading to either; a short pushed shot with no power, or pull at about 20degrees offline (depending on if i release the club)

I feel if i can get the plane more upright I can eliminate some of the bad shots as i won't need to redirect the swing. Should I be trying to do this or does my backswing probably not cause the bad shots?

Thanks Rich

**nickwbryant** · 02-21-2006, 12:59 PM

Re: My Swing Feb 2006 - HELP!! please

In theory yes but you have to remember we all hit bad shots! (look at Tiger - his driving makes me feel sick!).

If you go back and come down on the same plane (or slightly flatter down than back) then you should have to make less compensations. However if your clubface is out of position that will also mean a compensation is needed. Did you have any thoughts on your clubface position at the top?

nick

**RichieWinch** · 02-21-2006, 05:53 PM

Re: My Swing Feb 2006 - HELP!! please

I'm not sure whether the clubface is closed or open at the top, i'll look into it next time i'm at the range.

How far do you think I should be driving the ball with this swing in the summer? I'm just over 5 ft 10 and wreigh 10.5 stone.

Rich

**pnearn** · 02-22-2006, 08:48 AM

Re: My Swing Feb 2006 - HELP!! please

I agree with Matt (piny08). If you get set at address and simply just turn your shoulders and coil into the flexed right knee then the club will go on a plane determined by your address posture. If like me you have more of a 1PS type set up where you are slightly further from the ball and more bent from the waist with your butt sticking out then your swing will look flatter than if you were upright

If you just let the shoulders take your arms (the classic 1PS backswing) with no lift and tight left arm connection to the chest then it would probably 'look' flat but is probably right on plane with your left shoulder (if you drew lines through it at the top). You can see this with Vijay here http://www.mountainweb.com/oneplaneg...two_plane.html

This is where I got real confused a few years ago when at a video lesson I was put up against Tiger in his 2PS days and told to stand more upright, swing steeper, lift the arms etc. Looking back now I think that put me back 2 years those video lessons. So if you hit it well I would say run with it and dont worry if you think its flat!!

Re: the downsing. From the flatter top of swing I like to feel as if i'm swinging hard to the left so that halfway into the follow through my right arm is across my chest and my club pointing about 45 left of the target line. Again when I got the 2PS and 1PS mixed up I started fretting about extending down the target line and coming from the inside and the slot (all 2PS swing advice). With the flatter position at the top that meant I left the clubface open and would fade/push everything right. Now I just agressively pull my hands down through the ball to the left. To a 2PS swinger this would probably feel like a huge OTT move

I struggle sometimes with a pull too but I believe (personally) that its because I dont keep my head/upper body behind the ball through impact thus leaving the shoulders a bit too far rotated at impact. However I really try hard not to think too much about it as when I do it all goes pear-shaped!!

**nickwbryant** · 02-22-2006, 09:22 AM

Re: My Swing Feb 2006 - HELP!! please

Rich - cant really guess at your driving distance but whatever you drive now in winter add about 30 yards on! These winter yardages make the game so much harder! Cant wait for the good weather to arrive!

nick

**pnearn** · 02-22-2006, 09:40 AM

Re: My Swing Feb 2006 - HELP!! please

Originally posted by nickwbryant

Rich - cant really guess at your driving distance but whatever you drive now in winter add about 30 yards on! These winter yardages make the game so much harder! Cant wait for the good weather to arrive!

nick

Meant to be freezing and snowy again this weekend in the UK Nick, winter greens and thermal socks .. roll on spring

**nickwbryant** · 02-22-2006, 10:23 AM

Re: My Swing Feb 2006 - HELP!! please

is that right? i was hoping to get 18 in this sunday! I blame some of my putting woes mentioned in your other thread on the bad weather - i am praying thats the case and i stop three knocking so much come spring!

nick

**eastley** · 02-24-2006, 08:46 AM

Re: My Swing Feb 2006 - HELP!! please

Originally posted by Martin Levac

The backswing is completely unimportant except for one thing: Its purpose is to achieve a precise position at the top that will allow you to begin the downswing properly.

The backswing is simply the motion you do to bring the club into position at the top. It's a precision movement. That's it.

That precise position at the top is what we call the slot. Find it and begin the downswing properly. It doesn't need to be on plane, it doesn't need to match the downswing, all it needs to do is allow you to begin the downswing properly.

The downswing is what is truly important. That's where you generate power and accuracy. Thing is, you can't generate power and accuracy if you don't achieve this precise position at the top of the backswing because it is that precise position at the top that allows you to generate power and accuracy on the downswing.

I disagree..

The backswing lets you wind your coil up, gain a fluid motion in order to let the downswing go, what your pretty much saying is if a Golf Pleyer was to start his swing at the top of his back swing in the perfect position he should be able to hit the ball good or perfect? Not a chance man..

The backswing also lets you create a virtual line where you swing you club, straigh back and up then down of cause, no one will notice this line but it's there.

I can go on and on with other stuff that makes the back swing important but without a good back swing you cannot have a good swing at all..

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My Swing Feb 2006 - HELP!! please

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